+ Mar 03 10:28:36 * Now talking on #notnexuiz
+ Mar 03 10:28:41 <Taoki> Hi
+ Mar 03 10:28:44 <Dokujisan> hello
+ Mar 03 10:28:52 <[-z-]> why hello
+ Mar 03 10:28:55 * [-z-] gives channel operator status to Dokujisan Taoki
+ Mar 03 10:29:46 * div0 (Fg8deKX0@rm.endoftheinternet.org) has joined #notnexuiz
+ Mar 03 10:30:07 * [-z-] gives channel operator status to div0
+ Mar 03 10:30:11 <div0> Welcome to Noxious.
+ Mar 03 10:31:07 <[-z-]> I've talked to div0 and Dokujisan in private about different aspects in moving forward with a fork away from Nexuiz and away from Alientrap
+ Mar 03 10:32:07 <[-z-]> we've begin discussing project organization, server availabiltiy, repository, name, interested parties, possible repurcussions and where we go from here
+ Mar 03 10:32:11 <div0> just not sure if it will be an actual fork
+ Mar 03 10:32:20 <div0> or rather, whether AT will even continue with Nexuiz then
+ Mar 03 10:32:38 <div0> to summarize a bit:
+ Mar 03 10:32:56 <div0> - repository I can provide, on icculus.org. In fact, I already have a Nexuiz repo there.
+ Mar 03 10:33:10 <Taoki> I'm always with this project no matter what new name it will have, team name, etc. What happened happened, i mainly care what is best for this project now
+ Mar 03 10:33:13 <div0> - project organization: there should be not "one leader who speaks for everyone".
+ Mar 03 10:33:27 <div0> to make things like what had happened to not happen again
+ Mar 03 10:34:04 <div0> I suggest a scheme that ensures 3 "leaders", and big decisions have to be agreed upon by all three, and they also should be "somewhat responsible" for the rest of the community
+ Mar 03 10:34:16 <div0> e.g. no persons who are so detached that they simply do not care for the community any more
+ Mar 03 10:34:34 <Dokujisan> I told -z- that I think all good projects need some sort of leadership to be succesful. The 3-leader idea isn't bad.
+ Mar 03 10:34:40 <[-z-]> and perhaps a board or committee under that
+ Mar 03 10:34:45 <div0> in AT, LordHavoc maybe somewhat still can represent the community - Vermeulen certainly can't
+ Mar 03 10:35:25 <div0> 2 leaders aren't enough, as at times there would be only one leader available :P
+ Mar 03 10:35:28 <[-z-]> also for project reorganization, I've begun talking about better package management and distribution
+ Mar 03 10:35:33 <div0> I think the existence of a "dictator" should eb avoided
+ Mar 03 10:35:44 <div0> hm... how?
+ Mar 03 10:36:04 <[-z-]> how? the whole upload test package and alert servers thing I was talking about
+ Mar 03 10:36:11 <Taoki> I can confess I am a tiny little bit upset at LordHavoc too, because he could have declined this whole thing and not ported the engine to xbox. But I still like him and am not upset on him or anything... just wish he would have thought more at first maybe
+ Mar 03 10:36:21 <Taoki> erm ps3
+ Mar 03 10:36:48 <div0> [-z-]: oh
+ Mar 03 10:36:53 <div0> you don't mean packaging of the game :P
+ Mar 03 10:37:01 <[-z-]> oh no no
+ Mar 03 10:37:03 <div0> because, regarding that I think the old Nexuiz way was right
+ Mar 03 10:37:11 <[-z-]> yeah, there is a good workflow there
+ Mar 03 10:37:13 <div0> other than that I am working on a new build script that works more efficiently wiht git
+ Mar 03 10:37:16 <[-z-]> I wouldn't want to modify that
+ Mar 03 10:37:22 <div0> but that doesn't change the result
+ Mar 03 10:37:32 <[-z-]> you know best about that area
+ Mar 03 10:37:42 <div0> still, we ARE doing oddball packaging
+ Mar 03 10:37:48 <[-z-]> I want to start getting this project more organized though
+ Mar 03 10:37:51 <div0> so MAYBE we should make it more "standard" anyway
+ Mar 03 10:37:56 <div0> but well
+ Mar 03 10:37:59 <[-z-]> and built the website into the workflow
+ Mar 03 10:38:02 <div0> it is oddball that we put all platforms in one download
+ Mar 03 10:38:06 <div0> but it has its advantages too
+ Mar 03 10:38:22 <[-z-]> I want to build everything into wordpress/mybb and get the build script putting out cvar / command lists for the tool I'll integrate into the site.
+ Mar 03 10:38:32 <div0> I wouldn't want to touch that for now, but do some attempts at making platform specific versions too
+ Mar 03 10:38:42 <div0> I e.g. have recently made an engine feature that allows attaching a pk3 to a executable
+ Mar 03 10:38:49 <div0> so we could make a single selfcontained exe file for the game
+ Mar 03 10:38:51 <div0> (a 900MB one...)
+ Mar 03 10:39:32 <div0> for OS X, such a thing can already be accomplished because applications are just folders anyway
+ Mar 03 10:39:33 <Taoki> I hope there aren't plans to distribute Nexuiz like that in the future.
+ Mar 03 10:39:39 <div0> and Linux users don't care about that structure anyway :P
+ Mar 03 10:39:53 <div0> Taoki: I don 't want to exclude it, but probably it won't happen
+ Mar 03 10:40:01 <div0> except maybe for DSN :P
+ Mar 03 10:40:22 <div0> I think the advantages of the multiplatform zip overweigh that
+ Mar 03 10:40:27 <Taoki> I don't support that personally. The data being in a pk3 file is very important for flexibility and the like imo
+ Mar 03 10:40:31 <[-z-]> I think it would be helpful in some cases where users prefer simplicity
+ Mar 03 10:40:33 <div0> it stays just as flexible
+ Mar 03 10:40:34 <[-z-]> but never a forced thing
+ Mar 03 10:40:37 <div0> if you cat the pk3 to an executable
+ Mar 03 10:40:44 <div0> you can rename the result to zip and work with it normally
+ Mar 03 10:40:50 <div0> it is no less flexible than the pk3 way
+ Mar 03 10:41:07 <div0> zip self extractors work that way too :P
+ Mar 03 10:41:16 <Taoki> Hmm, I see
+ Mar 03 10:41:20 <div0> still
+ Mar 03 10:41:26 <div0> it means different downloads for different platforms
+ Mar 03 10:41:32 <div0> which somewhat hides that the game is multiplatform
+ Mar 03 10:41:48 <div0> and that is the part that I don't like about it
+ Mar 03 10:42:03 <div0> for damn small nexuiz this is no issue htough :P
+ Mar 03 10:42:11 <Taoki> I still like the way it is packed now myself. Don't think we should change that.
+ Mar 03 10:42:15 <div0> right
+ Mar 03 10:42:17 <div0> I like it too
+ Mar 03 10:42:26 <div0> this is, again, more an idea for specialized "distributions" like DSN
+ Mar 03 10:43:15 <div0> [16:38:43] <@[-z-]> I want to build everything into wordpress/mybb and get the build script putting
+ Mar 03 10:43:17 <div0> out cvar / command lists for the tool I'll integrate into the site.
+ Mar 03 10:43:27 <div0> you want the buoild script accessible from a web interface... not sure if that is good
+ Mar 03 10:43:49 <div0> another thing however that I would like, is more frequent public releases
+ Mar 03 10:43:56 <div0> with git, we can easily separate into different branches
+ Mar 03 10:44:03 <div0> and merge features into the main branch when they are done
+ Mar 03 10:44:19 <Taoki> Yeah, same div0. New versions seem to be released once or twice an year
+ Mar 03 10:44:27 <div0> so we should be able to make "weekly" test releases, and make actual minor releases every 3 months
+ Mar 03 10:44:31 <Taoki> Maybe once every 3-4 months at most wouldn't be bad
+ Mar 03 10:44:55 <div0> just like I did my work on Nexuiz/DP lately
+ Mar 03 10:45:08 <div0> I e.g. finished the warpzones code before putting it into the main branch
+ Mar 03 10:45:53 <div0> the problem is just, I cannot enforce such a policy on darkplaces
+ Mar 03 10:46:04 <Dokujisan> div0: I have wanted a fork of nexuiz for a long while. The reasons were mainly because of missing elements of project management. We (I discussed this with a handful of others) couldn't do a fork before because we didn't have someone like you, a primary developer who knows the code very well. But if YOU are involved in a Nexuiz fork, that changes things. I would be onboard as long as we have an outline of management....and some i
+ Mar 03 10:46:04 <Dokujisan> ntention of doing "official" community development, "official" marketing efforts, "official" testing procedures with a select group of volunteer testers, etc.
+ Mar 03 10:46:07 <div0> for that I am maintaining a "stable branch", but unstabilities still happen once in a while in DP
+ Mar 03 10:46:14 <div0> as I often simply cannot properlya judge if something is stable
+ Mar 03 10:46:35 <div0> select group of testers... not sure :P
+ Mar 03 10:46:44 <div0> I don't think testing should be limited
+ Mar 03 10:46:52 <div0> everyone should be allowed, and even encouraged, to
+ Mar 03 10:47:11 <div0> but, some select group for "heavier" testing is still a very good idea
+ Mar 03 10:47:20 <div0> i.e. people who should feel responsible for actually testing it :P
+ Mar 03 10:47:23 <Taoki> Not sure to whom I mentioned this, but for a while ago I've started making an own game from Nexuiz as well. Obviously, one that will be named differently and remain GPL too :P Probably a little game which is just like, a sort of story i wanted to make for myself
+ Mar 03 10:47:30 <Dokujisan> well of course features can be experienced by all, but a select group would do some proper feedback and have better communication with the dev team
+ Mar 03 10:47:39 <div0> right
+ Mar 03 10:47:44 <div0> I just say... we shouldn't restrict
+ Mar 03 10:47:49 <[-z-]> sorry went to make tea, let me catch up
+ Mar 03 10:47:51 <div0> a testing team should not be exclusive
+ Mar 03 10:47:58 <div0> but it should eb responsible for the testing
+ Mar 03 10:48:07 <div0> anyone else still is free to test too :P
+ Mar 03 10:48:16 <Dokujisan> anyone could give feedback....my point is that this type of subject should be discussed. The whole game balance issues that we went through (before and after LH rejoined the project) could have been handled better
+ Mar 03 10:48:19 <Taoki> Yeah, SVn should always be public imo
+ Mar 03 10:48:22 <[-z-]> div0: the cvar and command lists would be text files reformated as json and accessible through a web application
+ Mar 03 10:48:35 <div0> Taoki: not just svn
+ Mar 03 10:48:37 <div0> also binary builds
+ Mar 03 10:48:42 <Taoki> sure
+ Mar 03 10:48:44 <[-z-]> wordpress is an open format many developers know and love and it will be easy for us to scale
+ Mar 03 10:48:50 <div0> my goal is weekly binary builds from the "stable" branch
+ Mar 03 10:49:04 <div0> feature freeze would simply mean no feature branches get merged into main, only bugfixes would
+ Mar 03 10:49:10 <div0> other devs can then still work on features :P
+ Mar 03 10:49:27 <div0> they just won't appear in the release the freeze is for
+ Mar 03 10:49:42 <[-z-]> This will help give us a stronger community because we can build user auth into other parts of the site, like a map repository.
+ Mar 03 10:49:58 <div0> as for cvar list...
+ Mar 03 10:50:05 <div0> don't know how to properly generate json from shell script
+ Mar 03 10:50:12 <[-z-]> you don't have to
+ Mar 03 10:50:12 <div0> but well, I do know how to make a full cvar list text file :P
+ Mar 03 10:50:16 <[-z-]> yes
+ Mar 03 10:50:18 <[-z-]> that's all I need
+ Mar 03 10:50:20 <[-z-]> that's how it works
+ Mar 03 10:50:22 <[-z-]> I have it in git
+ Mar 03 10:50:24 <Dokujisan> I'm strongly in favor of a central user system
+ Mar 03 10:50:27 <div0> once did that by actually running the engine, and doing cvarlist :P
+ Mar 03 10:50:41 <[-z-]> Dokujisan: I don't think it's a completely central user system
+ Mar 03 10:50:50 <[-z-]> and I'm open to creating a distributed network
+ Mar 03 10:51:06 <div0> I don't think repository access and web user auth can be combined
+ Mar 03 10:51:12 <[-z-]> div0: this is how it works http://github.com/z/ncacs
+ Mar 03 10:51:17 <div0> but all the rest should be able to
+ Mar 03 10:51:40 <[-z-]> so just a cronjob to generate the list and upload it to a web server
+ Mar 03 10:51:42 <Taoki> Heh, I realize now i never thouht about any such changes, now that it is talked about. Nexuiz, for a free and opensource project, always seemed perfect to me. Never thought anything could or should be improved in how it's managed etc.
+ Mar 03 10:51:46 <div0> only problem: this lacks cvars that are specific to some builds
+ Mar 03 10:51:58 <div0> like renderer stuff
+ Mar 03 10:52:01 <Taoki> Except that patches could be checked more often, been struggling with that for the last months
+ Mar 03 10:52:04 <[-z-]> div0: well, we can further separate it
+ Mar 03 10:52:05 <Dokujisan> div0: I'm working on another gaming project with Getty and we're planning something called a PlayerID which is to be a central user system that even other games other than ours could use
+ Mar 03 10:52:14 <div0> Taoki: thing is
+ Mar 03 10:52:24 <div0> working with such patches is quite tedious
+ Mar 03 10:52:36 <div0> I say, when using git, more people should get commit access to branches
+ Mar 03 10:52:43 <div0> and merging gets easier then too
+ Mar 03 10:53:11 <Taoki> Yeah, i'm still not so familiar with git. It is more difficult to understand than SVN, ad least over Windows with Tortoise
+ Mar 03 10:53:16 <div0> Dokujisan: you know I am against an enforced user system for the game
+ Mar 03 10:53:20 <div0> I want to play anonymously
+ Mar 03 10:53:26 <div0> even though that means proper banning cannot happen
+ Mar 03 10:53:34 <div0> an optioanl registration for stats, why not
+ Mar 03 10:53:37 <Dokujisan> div0: even if you register a name, isn't that still anonymous?
+ Mar 03 10:53:50 <div0> not really, one can easily find out :P
+ Mar 03 10:53:55 <[-z-]> well, I wasn't even thinking about stats but we can do that too... I was thinking more for content submissions
+ Mar 03 10:54:04 <div0> I basically don't want to be trackable in game
+ Mar 03 10:54:09 <Dokujisan> why not?
+ Mar 03 10:54:10 <div0> I sometimes play with other nicks
+ Mar 03 10:54:23 <div0> because e.g. employers are not supposed to know that I sometimes play 3 hours on a day
+ Mar 03 10:54:32 <[-z-]> :-P
+ Mar 03 10:54:32 <div0> they are prone to expect you to be there for the company all day
+ Mar 03 10:54:41 <div0> the times of 8hr/day are over
+ Mar 03 10:55:13 <div0> and no, I do not mean playing from work.
+ Mar 03 10:55:16 <div0> not doing THAT :P
+ Mar 03 10:55:17 <Dokujisan> what if each user account is allowed 3 hidden aliases tied to the account?
+ Mar 03 10:55:21 <div0> no
+ Mar 03 10:55:25 <Dokujisan> or some other variation
+ Mar 03 10:55:28 <div0> why do you want to enforce accounts?
+ Mar 03 10:55:40 <div0> even though _I_ know my email address won't eb abused
+ Mar 03 10:55:44 <div0> how would anyone else be sure?
+ Mar 03 10:55:58 <div0> (I would know because I'd have control over that system :P)
+ Mar 03 10:56:10 <Dokujisan> the moderation features alone are worth the central user system
+ Mar 03 10:56:14 <Dokujisan> but as far as trusting people
+ Mar 03 10:56:28 <div0> banning is not worth tracking
+ Mar 03 10:56:31 <Dokujisan> we could win people's faith because of being an open source project with open values
+ Mar 03 10:56:34 <div0> how would hidden aliases even work?
+ Mar 03 10:56:41 <div0> i mean, if you use it for banning
+ Mar 03 10:56:45 <Dokujisan> div0: that can be discussed. I just thought of that off the top of my head
+ Mar 03 10:57:06 <div0> other way round, for positive display of trust - sure
+ Mar 03 10:57:13 <div0> people SHOULD be able to register others as friends
+ Mar 03 10:57:25 <div0> and I can always opt to play as an "unknown" :P
+ Mar 03 10:57:36 <div0> think of IRC nickname registration
+ Mar 03 10:57:50 <div0> that is optional, although you sort of have to do it if you want to have some sort of status (e.g. op in a channel)
+ Mar 03 10:58:07 <div0> I'd have no problem if this user auth system is tied to e.g. vote masterä
+ Mar 03 10:58:09 <[-z-]> Hey, can we rewind for a second and brain storm names for this group and project so we can go forward with setting up resources to outline the project and discuss these things with a wiki / forum?
+ Mar 03 10:58:13 <div0> or even required for being allowed to start a vote
+ Mar 03 10:58:25 <Dokujisan> well your main concern is with tracking, like stats of tracking the times that you are online playing.... the aliases would be for avoiding that. You could use your alias names when you don't want to be tracked publicly.
+ Mar 03 10:58:38 <div0> how would that even help?
+ Mar 03 10:58:46 <div0> the server would probably know that I am the same person
+ Mar 03 10:58:49 <div0> and just display other info
+ Mar 03 10:59:12 <div0> I do not WANT the server to know, as I don't have good reasons to trust it
+ Mar 03 10:59:42 <Dokujisan> yes the central server would be the only thing knowing the link between the user account and the alias
+ Mar 03 10:59:47 <div0> thing is basically... in the open source community, many people are also friends of privacy :P
+ Mar 03 10:59:51 <Dokujisan> I'm not sure why you wouldn't trust that
+ Mar 03 11:00:03 <Dokujisan> well this is still supporting privacy, I think
+ Mar 03 11:00:04 <div0> _I_ would because I would have access to that server, and know how it works
+ Mar 03 11:00:08 <div0> how could anyone else be able to trust it?
+ Mar 03 11:00:12 <[-z-]> wouldn't the solution here be for servers to opt into this centralized service?
+ Mar 03 11:00:12 <div0> any "mere player"?
+ Mar 03 11:00:38 <Dokujisan> don't mere players trust websites all the time anyway?
+ Mar 03 11:00:43 <div0> not all
+ Mar 03 11:00:45 <Dokujisan> with registering
+ Mar 03 11:00:50 <div0> e.g. what about all the noscript users? :P
+ Mar 03 11:00:58 <div0> or, you do know bugmenot.com? :P
+ Mar 03 11:01:08 <Dokujisan> well I mean with your example of trusting someone with your email address
+ Mar 03 11:01:15 <Dokujisan> that's one scenario
+ Mar 03 11:01:16 <div0> there IS a large group who is on the side of privacy
+ Mar 03 11:01:23 <div0> I am part of that
+ Mar 03 11:01:34 <div0> I do not want others to be able to track me, when I don't positively allow them to
+ Mar 03 11:01:41 <div0> in a forum it can't be avoided, so it's fine by me
+ Mar 03 11:01:52 <div0> but in a game, it should be avoided
+ Mar 03 11:02:02 <div0> still, you can give good incentives for registering in the game
+ Mar 03 11:02:06 <div0> #just shouldn't enforce it
+ Mar 03 11:02:15 <div0> even nick name coloring could depend on it :P
+ Mar 03 11:02:17 <Dokujisan> do you want to be allowed to spam servers like nadz does?
+ Mar 03 11:02:26 <div0> it can't be helped
+ Mar 03 11:02:26 <[-z-]> just make it an opt in feature
+ Mar 03 11:02:29 <div0> I want to ensure my privacy
+ Mar 03 11:02:30 <[-z-]> by the server admin
+ Mar 03 11:02:31 <Dokujisan> I'm wondering what level of freedom you are after
+ Mar 03 11:02:45 <div0> basically:
+ Mar 03 11:02:46 <[-z-]> 90% of the internet uses google, so they clearly don't give a shit about privacy :-P
+ Mar 03 11:02:49 <Dokujisan> this is just a game here. The goal should always be about allowing players to....play the game
+ Mar 03 11:02:57 <Dokujisan> and that is really what moderation is about...or should be about
+ Mar 03 11:03:01 <[-z-]> plus, we can mask their ips from the server if they feel so inclined
+ Mar 03 11:03:10 <div0> IPs are already masked :P
+ Mar 03 11:03:12 <div0> that isn't the problem
+ Mar 03 11:03:18 <[-z-]> yes but I mean with cool names
+ Mar 03 11:03:23 <div0> well
+ Mar 03 11:03:25 <[-z-]> or annoying depending on how you look at them :-P
+ Mar 03 11:03:29 <div0> what about this:
+ Mar 03 11:03:35 <[-z-]> z@my-clan.rockz.net
+ Mar 03 11:03:38 <div0> 1. in serious match (like ladder, pickup), you MUST be registered
+ Mar 03 11:03:47 <[-z-]> yes
+ Mar 03 11:03:53 <div0> 2. in FFA match, you don't have to be, but if not, you show up as unregistered in the scoreboard
+ Mar 03 11:03:56 <Taoki> Not so much into privacy here, when it comes to Nexuiz. But for those who want it, it is good. Afaik you can just change nickname before entering a server.
+ Mar 03 11:04:01 <Dokujisan> the method for which aliases are used could be public knowledge. Aliases woudln't be trakced. They would only be used to apply moderation actions to an account, when necessary.
+ Mar 03 11:04:05 <div0> maybe can even only use the marine model and non-colored nicks
+ Mar 03 11:04:15 <Taoki> This reminds me. I hope Nexuiz will have a menu Friends List at some point
+ Mar 03 11:04:31 <div0> Taoki: CURRENTLY I can just change my nick :P
+ Mar 03 11:04:45 <div0> basically... I am fine if I lose features when playing unregisteredly
+ Mar 03 11:04:55 <div0> like nick colors, player model choice
+ Mar 03 11:05:07 <div0> but I want to stay able to
+ Mar 03 11:05:20 <div0> otherwise, I'll have no choice but to create multiple dummy accounts with various email addresses
+ Mar 03 11:05:35 <Dokujisan> div0: I'm mainly asking you to think about the possibilties here that can protect the necessary level of privacy. The main issues with privacy have to do with tracking. The other thing that is useful for a central registration system is to reserve names
+ Mar 03 11:05:39 <div0> also, I am fine if some servers enforce the registration
+ Mar 03 11:05:49 <Dokujisan> so nobody could use the alias name "divverent"
+ Mar 03 11:05:52 <div0> right
+ Mar 03 11:05:54 <div0> reserving names is good
+ Mar 03 11:05:58 <div0> but well, on IRC it works too
+ Mar 03 11:06:12 <div0> if not registered, what if I then always show up as divverent<UNREGISTERED>
+ Mar 03 11:06:20 <div0> and to be divVerent, I need to registere
+ Mar 03 11:06:25 <Dokujisan> hmm
+ Mar 03 11:06:27 <Taoki> Right... i even forgot there is a traking system. If there is one... I'm shamed to say i don't know yet (like a system that stores how good you are on servers, atc)
+ Mar 03 11:06:37 <Dokujisan> I woudln't want people to play as Dokujisan<UNREGISTERED>
+ Mar 03 11:06:44 <div0> well
+ Mar 03 11:06:47 <div0> you can kick them then :P
+ Mar 03 11:06:55 <Taoki> rcon is its name iirc
+ Mar 03 11:07:01 <div0> if you see a Dokujisan<UNREGISTERED> and a Dokujisan on a server
+ Mar 03 11:07:05 <div0> you know which one is the right one :P
+ Mar 03 11:07:20 <Dokujisan> well *I* do...but a mere player.....
+ Mar 03 11:07:33 <div0> he'll see that you have the cooler color codes
+ Mar 03 11:07:38 <div0> and the other Dokujisan is just plain white :P
+ Mar 03 11:08:00 <[-z-]> maybe he was feeling vanilla and the other one was just being))
+ Mar 03 11:08:06 <div0> lol
+ Mar 03 11:08:10 <div0> the unregistered tag could be ))
+ Mar 03 11:08:13 <[-z-]> haha
+ Mar 03 11:08:27 <[-z-]> halo on xbox live used to have a iconic background
+ Mar 03 11:08:32 <[-z-]> in the names list
+ Mar 03 11:08:37 <[-z-]> well on the scoreboard
+ Mar 03 11:08:56 <Dokujisan> I think when it comes to privacy issues, instead of saying in a blanket fashion "I want my privacy!" is not helpful, but breaking it down into specific concerns or scenarios is something that can be worked with.
+ Mar 03 11:08:57 <[-z-]> for registered (at bungie.net) users
+ Mar 03 11:09:10 <div0> Dokujisan: but well, if you can figure out a way that allows enforced registration without the server (not the auth server either) knowing who you are
+ Mar 03 11:09:14 <div0> then I am fine wiht it
+ Mar 03 11:09:23 <div0> possibly this can be done using digital signatures
+ Mar 03 11:09:31 <Dokujisan> can you help me come up with some solution like that? I would be more than happy to travel down that road.
+ Mar 03 11:09:44 <div0> I don't know one, but find it possible that one exists
+ Mar 03 11:09:52 <Dokujisan> getty talked about using digital signatures for the PlayerID concept
+ Mar 03 11:09:59 <div0> like, with RSA such stuff may be possible
+ Mar 03 11:10:18 <div0> e.g., RSA scheme is "malleable", so you can "edit" an encrypted message without being able tod ecrypt it
+ Mar 03 11:10:33 <div0> this might be useful to implement the "aliases"
+ Mar 03 11:10:56 <[-z-]> Dokujisan: think about integrating the playerID system with wordpress as well.
+ Mar 03 11:10:57 <div0> they might then appear as valid signatures, but the server doesn't know for whom
+ Mar 03 11:11:25 <div0> but of course... then the player also cannot be properly banned
+ Mar 03 11:12:16 <Dokujisan> well we all know that any player can just re-register
+ Mar 03 11:12:26 <Dokujisan> but banning is more about creating resistance
+ Mar 03 11:12:39 <Dokujisan> making it a bit harder for them to act inappropriately
+ Mar 03 11:14:22 <div0> I still wonder if there is a way to combine both
+ Mar 03 11:14:26 <Dokujisan> ip-based banning is more useful. A combination of user account + IP is better.
+ Mar 03 11:14:34 <div0> what if the "player ID" is a different one when talking to a different server
+ Mar 03 11:14:46 <div0> e.g. if the cleint doesn't send the player ID, but a hash of the player ID and the server IP
+ Mar 03 11:14:51 <div0> you then cannot be tracked across servers
+ Mar 03 11:14:57 <div0> but one server can recognize you
+ Mar 03 11:15:52 <div0> or even, if every player immediately gets 9 IDs on registration he can freely choose from, and accumulate stats on
+ Mar 03 11:16:04 <div0> if one is banned, he will of course use the next one
+ Mar 03 11:16:08 <div0> but he only has 9 chances :P
+ Mar 03 11:16:19 <div0> still... he then just reregisters
+ Mar 03 11:16:47 <div0> I am fine if some servers enforce registration of course
+ Mar 03 11:16:55 <div0> but I can tell you straight away, I won't play on such servers
+ Mar 03 11:17:00 <Dokujisan> yes, I really like the idea of enticing people to act appropriately by offering features that benefit longstanding accounts.
+ Mar 03 11:17:21 <Dokujisan> div0: even if the main privacy issues are dealt with?
+ Mar 03 11:17:30 <div0> Dokujisan: I do0ubt they CAN be dealt with
+ Mar 03 11:17:35 <div0> e.g. if a centralized auth server is used
+ Mar 03 11:17:40 <div0> what if it gets hacked?
+ Mar 03 11:17:54 <div0> what if the server admin decides it's a good idea to release all sorts of log data from it?
+ Mar 03 11:18:02 <Dokujisan> if the aliases aren't tracked, then that shouldn't affect the privacy issue that you explained earlier (tracking)
+ Mar 03 11:18:07 <div0> the one piece of ifnormation that I never want to publish, is when and how long I played
+ Mar 03 11:18:09 <Dokujisan> so even if accounts are hacked
+ Mar 03 11:18:17 <div0> how do I _know_ the aliases are not tracked?
+ Mar 03 11:18:33 <div0> there should be some technical means so I can trust it without knowing what thze server does
+ Mar 03 11:19:14 <div0> however, if there are, how could the auth server then possibly recognize me when I am banned?
+ Mar 03 11:19:45 <Dokujisan> every second we're on the internet, we're trusting people. To use a service, there has to be SOME level of trust. When people connect to my nexuiz server, they have to trust me.
+ Mar 03 11:19:59 <div0> how do they even know it is YOUR server?
+ Mar 03 11:20:05 <div0> what if mikeeusa names his server the same :P
+ Mar 03 11:20:26 <div0> okay, you'd notice when you see the crappy maps
+ Mar 03 11:20:29 <div0> but that is after the fact
+ Mar 03 11:20:32 <Dokujisan> so if we have a policy of explaining publicly how the aliases are used (like they aren't tracked like "normal" names) then that woudl go far to helping to build that trust
+ Mar 03 11:20:44 <div0> explaining is not enough
+ Mar 03 11:20:51 <div0> I would demand that they CAN not be tracked
+ Mar 03 11:20:54 <div0> ensured by technical means
+ Mar 03 11:21:05 <div0> this might be possible though
+ Mar 03 11:21:16 <Dokujisan> isn't such a claimn (a privacy policy) a legal thing?
+ Mar 03 11:21:21 <div0> no
+ Mar 03 11:21:27 <div0> nobody is bound to these things anyway
+ Mar 03 11:21:35 <div0> I want such a claim based on how the system actually works
+ Mar 03 11:21:42 <div0> like, based on which info is sent to whom
+ Mar 03 11:22:18 <Dokujisan> how could anyone from a player perspective technically verify that?
+ Mar 03 11:22:37 <div0> well, if the algorithms are open and it is proven that it ensures anonymity
+ Mar 03 11:22:46 <div0> then one can verify it on his own, or ask a cryptography professor about it :P
+ Mar 03 11:22:51 <div0> sort of like how open source works
+ Mar 03 11:22:53 <Dokujisan> and do you always require such technical verification of tracking privacy when you use a service? like irc.quakenet.org?
+ Mar 03 11:22:55 <Taoki> I think I missed part of the convo, but an quick idea; When it comes to keeping your privacy from your client that you are connecting through (in terms of not giving away your IP addreess, etc) maye we can make a client switch for that. Although, that would make it easier for people to avoid ip-based bans.
+ Mar 03 11:23:14 <div0> that is the problem, right
+ Mar 03 11:23:32 <div0> the IP is nothing I am concenred about, as mine is dynamic anyway
+ Mar 03 11:24:13 <Dokujisan> well ok... if the algorithm is open
+ Mar 03 11:24:15 <Taoki> Servers have such an option theirselves. I set mine to allow the IP to be visible.
+ Mar 03 11:24:19 <Dokujisan> then that is another measure to ensure trust
+ Mar 03 11:24:23 <div0> Dokujisan: exactly
+ Mar 03 11:24:32 <Dokujisan> very much like the claim, but just with a little more evidence
+ Mar 03 11:24:33 <div0> and basically, I'd like an open algorithm that allows anonymous clienrts
+ Mar 03 11:24:38 <div0> exactly
+ Mar 03 11:25:00 <div0> actually, there are means for this, now that I think of it
+ Mar 03 11:25:06 <div0> actually, there are means for this, now that I think of it
+ Mar 03 11:25:13 <div0> know the term "electronic money"?
+ Mar 03 11:25:26 <div0> basically, it's a number generated both by a server and by a client
+ Mar 03 11:25:27 <Dokujisan> ok, if such a thing were to happen, and aliases were not tracked like normal registered names would be (for stats), then if someone "hacked" into the central server...they woudln't have access to anything of value aside from an email address
+ Mar 03 11:25:31 <div0> but so that it can be verified, is unique
+ Mar 03 11:25:41 <div0> BUT: the server cannot later find out which client has hte number
+ Mar 03 11:25:45 <div0> as the client made the final calculation
+ Mar 03 11:25:55 <div0> so the client uses a number he calculated together with the server
+ Mar 03 11:26:06 <div0> but the server does not have a way of knowing to which client he gave it
+ Mar 03 11:26:12 <div0> as it doesn't know the final calculation the client did
+ Mar 03 11:26:31 <div0> that is how one could generate an anonymous player ID
+ Mar 03 11:26:43 <div0> it can still be tracked, in that it can be distinguished from others
+ Mar 03 11:26:49 <div0> but nobody can find out who got that ID and when
+ Mar 03 11:27:12 <div0> with 4, 5 of these IDs, I think I'd be anonymous enough
+ Mar 03 11:27:31 <div0> just... why wouldn't XSAX create such an ID too then :P
+ Mar 03 11:27:49 <div0> basically, thsi creates IDs that are, mathematically, "detached" from the identity who ordered them
+ Mar 03 11:27:55 <div0> so I would give the web site my email address
+ Mar 03 11:28:03 <div0> but later it'd be impossible to link the email address to my ID
+ Mar 03 11:28:27 <div0> the web site still would be able to e.g. limit IDs to at most one per email address per week
+ Mar 03 11:28:29 <Dokujisan> so with such a system in place, a system that goes to great lengths to ensure privacy for those who seek it, would you still elect not to use servers that utilize the central registration system?
+ Mar 03 11:28:45 <div0> with such a system, I probably would use servers that use such a system
+ Mar 03 11:28:53 <div0> as I would KNOW that the ID cannot be linked to my identity in any way
+ Mar 03 11:29:16 <div0> also, I would KNOW I can make a new one every week :P
+ Mar 03 11:29:32 <div0> so it can't be used for long-term tracking if I don't want to
+ Mar 03 11:29:50 <Dokujisan> you mean the primary player name? or the aliases?
+ Mar 03 11:30:05 <div0> both
+ Mar 03 11:30:13 <div0> all player IDs could use such a scheme
+ Mar 03 11:30:29 <div0> a player is free to associate the ID with his actual name (e.g. by registering his nickname) at any time
+ Mar 03 11:30:52 <div0> of course, he'd then have to actually KEEP using that ID, or he wouldn't be able to use his nickname any more :P
+ Mar 03 11:32:57 <Dokujisan> so... using the system you described, if I register with the primary name of Dokujisan and I have aliases of Alice and Bob... if I go onto HOCTF server as "Alice" and begin calling people names and spamming. The admin could ban me. If I try to relogin to that server as "Bob", it would maintain the ban?
+ Mar 03 11:33:38 <div0> no
+ Mar 03 11:33:40 <Dokujisan> the central system would somehow know that "Bob" was also banned
+ Mar 03 11:33:46 <div0> that is impossible
+ Mar 03 11:33:55 <div0> but, you can only register one such ID every week
+ Mar 03 11:34:01 <div0> so a troll would run out fast
+ Mar 03 11:34:07 <Dokujisan> oh I see
+ Mar 03 11:34:12 <Dokujisan> so that is the limiting mechanism
+ Mar 03 11:34:15 <div0> basically:
+ Mar 03 11:34:28 <div0> the ID generating server remembers your address, and prevents too frequent registration
+ Mar 03 11:34:33 <div0> but: it does not know which the ID is that you got
+ Mar 03 11:34:47 <div0> the game can verify your ID - but cannot link it to your address or anything else
+ Mar 03 11:34:56 <div0> unless you voluntarily give the game the info (e.g. by registering your nick)
+ Mar 03 11:35:22 <div0> I can implement that crypto scheme, BTW
+ Mar 03 11:35:28 <div0> I remembered how it works
+ Mar 03 11:36:43 <div0> one keyword for it is "blind signatures"
+ Mar 03 11:36:51 <div0> http://ntrg.cs.tcd.ie/mepeirce/Project/Press/digibro.html
+ Mar 03 11:36:54 <div0> like at the end of that page
+ Mar 03 11:38:04 <div0> in this case, the "bank" does not know which number I wanted it to sign...
+ Mar 03 11:38:06 <div0> but it is not perfect
+ Mar 03 11:38:19 <div0> in that specific protocol, I can still cheat a bit
+ Mar 03 11:39:01 <div0> but that can be prevented too :P
+ Mar 03 11:39:20 <div0> (by requiring the "x" to have a special pattern, that is unlikely to come when you modify the signature)
+ Mar 03 11:40:20 <div0> e.g.: x may be a hash value of a string that is like "NEXIUZ PLAYER ID #43984398"
+ Mar 03 11:40:33 <div0> and as ID, you'd present both the string and the signature
+ Mar 03 11:40:45 <div0> if the hash function is good, you can't manipulate the signature
+ Mar 03 11:41:32 <div0> note that that string would not really be your "ID" :P
+ Mar 03 11:41:48 <div0> so if the number matches between two players, that is no problem, as the signature still would not match
+ Mar 03 11:44:08 <div0> 1. s = "NEXUIZ PLAYER ID #474574598798"
+ Mar 03 11:44:09 <div0> 2. h = SHA1(s)
+ Mar 03 11:44:11 <div0> 3. r = random
+ Mar 03 11:44:14 <div0> 4. x = h*r^publickey
+ Mar 03 11:44:15 <div0> 5. send x to auth server, get back y which auth server calculates as x^privatekey
+ Mar 03 11:44:18 <div0> 6. t = y/r
+ Mar 03 11:44:20 <div0> 7. The full player ID is s together with t
+ Mar 03 11:44:34 <div0> to verify, the server would check the ID starts with "NEXUIZ PLAYER ID #", and that the signature matches too
+ Mar 03 11:46:01 <div0> that scheme is from 1983 by the way
+ Mar 03 11:46:10 <div0> so if it was patented, the patents have expired now
+ Mar 03 11:47:14 <div0> I'll probbaly code that soon, but first check it for possible other security problems
+ Mar 03 11:48:39 <div0> have to go now though
+ Mar 03 11:48:40 <Dokujisan> if we could nail down a privacy-safe central user system, that would allow a lot of other features to be added to the game
+ Mar 03 11:48:45 <div0> I'll look up more stuff on it
+ Mar 03 11:48:53 <div0> "electronic money" is the keyword for it though
+ Mar 03 11:49:13 <div0> basically, the general idea is to make sure that not even the owner of the auth server can know WHO owns a specific key
+ Mar 03 11:49:40 <div0> and to provide banning by limiting the number of keys generated
+ Mar 03 11:50:18 <div0> this speciifc scheme has a little problem though, but I once saw the solution for that in a book
+ Mar 03 11:50:26 <div0> I'll check in that book later :P
+ Mar 03 11:55:20 <Dokujisan> in the meantime, -z- and I were scanning around for open domain names as a name alternative to nexuiz
+ Mar 03 11:55:25 <Taoki> Alright, while we're all here. I've had a question for a looong time now (separate from all this). What server do the devs play on? I usually play on the DCC servers, but would have liked to play with div0, [-z-] and all the other core devs once.
+ Mar 03 11:55:57 <[-z-]> recently the HO servers because they are the most well kept USA servers
+ Mar 03 11:56:21 <[-z-]> bbiab, need to get lunch
+ Mar 03 11:56:31 <Taoki> Thanks. USA probably means low ping from Europe
+ Mar 03 11:58:48 <[-z-]> yes but I've played on DCC before and Over the Lazy Dog
+ Mar 03 12:02:12 <[-z-]> lets get brainstorming about names
+ Mar 03 12:05:55 <Dokujisan> NOT AVAILABLE
+ Mar 03 12:05:55 <Dokujisan> nexotic
+ Mar 03 12:05:55 <Dokujisan> nexetic
+ Mar 03 12:05:55 <Dokujisan> nexon
+ Mar 03 12:05:55 <Dokujisan> nexuz
+ Mar 03 12:05:55 <Dokujisan> nexine
+ Mar 03 12:05:55 <Dokujisan> nexean
+ Mar 03 12:05:55 <Dokujisan> nexio
+ Mar 03 12:05:55 <Dokujisan> nexium
+ Mar 03 12:05:55 <Dokujisan> nexun
+ Mar 03 12:05:55 <Dokujisan> xenios
+ Mar 03 12:05:55 <Dokujisan> xenius
+ Mar 03 12:05:55 <Dokujisan> xenoic
+ Mar 03 12:05:55 <Dokujisan> xenotic
+ Mar 03 12:05:55 <Dokujisan> AVAILABLE
+ Mar 03 12:05:55 <Dokujisan> nexotus
+ Mar 03 12:05:55 <Dokujisan> nexaen
+ Mar 03 12:05:55 <Dokujisan> nexilus
+ Mar 03 12:05:55 <Dokujisan> zeniux
+ Mar 03 12:20:36 <Taoki> some proposed Nexiuz, already used for the current site redirect (nexiuz.org ). I also thought about naming it Zymotic, after the dead project which was named that way.
+ Mar 03 12:21:24 <Dokujisan> if it's being forked, I wouldn't use something that would be mistaken for Nexuiz. But a similar-style name would be good.
+ Mar 03 12:41:40 <[-z-]> wwi own nexiuz.org
+ Mar 03 13:05:33 <div0> Taoki: I play on whatever is at the top, or my own
+ Mar 03 13:05:43 <div0> and sometimes arranged stuff with PB
+ Mar 03 13:06:14 <div0> I recently changed my server to KH only, to give better experience maybe
+ Mar 03 13:06:30 <Dokujisan> I could never get into KH. I tried for a week once
+ Mar 03 13:06:40 <Dokujisan> I like clan arena though
+ Mar 03 13:06:49 <Dokujisan> that was a great addition
+ Mar 03 13:34:02 <Taoki> Dokujisan, from the list of names you posted earlier (couldn't think of any on my own, am generally bad with names) the last one, zeniux, sounds prettiest and most fitting. Or a derivate of that.
+ Mar 03 13:34:47 <Taoki> But, before finding a new name, I think m0ost important is finding a way to let people who don't visit the forums and such know that Nexuiz was renamed. Otherwise, many players may think it just vanished forever all of a sudden, and find out in months or years it's still there
+ Mar 03 13:35:12 <div0> well
+ Mar 03 13:35:39 <Taoki> Not sure how that could be done... was thinking that maybe we could find all news articles about Nexuiz on google and see how we could modify each
+ Mar 03 13:35:41 <div0> I do think that Alientrap won't follow the project when we take over
+ Mar 03 13:35:43 <div0> so...
+ Mar 03 13:35:52 <div0> it shouldn't be impossible to get it displayed in game :P
+ Mar 03 13:36:00 <div0> we have ways to show such a notification
+ Mar 03 13:36:13 <div0> yes, the rotating yellow box :P
+ Mar 03 13:36:38 <div0> also, we can organize some server admins, and let them show this when people join their server
+ Mar 03 13:36:39 <Taoki> How? Does the gamecode support a way to show news from an external page?
+ Mar 03 13:36:43 <div0> know my "mikeeusa warning"?
+ Mar 03 13:36:49 <div0> not yet
+ Mar 03 13:36:54 <Taoki> Not really
+ Mar 03 13:36:57 <div0> can onyl show a single line of text in the update notification
+ Mar 03 13:37:05 <div0> but with csqc, you can show a on-join dialog on a server
+ Mar 03 13:37:11 <div0> so if enough server admins would take over that code
+ Mar 03 13:37:15 <Taoki> Wow, i didn't know thre is an update notification.
+ Mar 03 13:37:15 <div0> most people will know
+ Mar 03 13:37:48 <Taoki> Another good idea would be servers (like DCC) putting the news in their MOTD or periodic helper script messages
+ Mar 03 13:38:21 <div0> right
+ Mar 03 13:38:26 <div0> or more visible than MOTD :P
+ Mar 03 13:38:31 <div0> csqc leaves many possibilities for this
+ Mar 03 13:38:48 <Taoki> yeah, there is a way to make a message be echoed to anyone when joining, like normal chat.
+ Mar 03 13:39:12 <div0> that too
+ Mar 03 13:39:15 <div0> but well
+ Mar 03 13:39:19 <div0> we can modify code :P
+ Mar 03 13:39:26 <div0> I have on my server some more-or-less secret feature
+ Mar 03 13:39:31 <div0> that warns that a map is by mikeeusa :P
+ Mar 03 13:39:52 <div0> in form of a dialog box that you have to close by pressing a button
+ Mar 03 13:40:44 <Taoki> hehe realy?
+ Mar 03 13:41:15 <Taoki> fun :P
+ Mar 03 13:41:45 <Taoki> Ooh, right... by having separate CSQC on a server which gets downloaded if it doesn't match yours
+ Mar 03 13:41:51 <Taoki> forgot that :P
+ Mar 03 13:42:03 <div0> right
+ Mar 03 13:42:06 <div0> we can do a LOT with that
+ Mar 03 13:42:50 <Taoki> If we're lucky, we may be able to change the name without loosing a lot of popularity.
+ Mar 03 13:43:17 <div0> we may even gain more
+ Mar 03 13:43:32 <div0> because many players probably still think that Nexuiz is the sucky game it was at 1.x times :P
+ Mar 03 13:43:44 <Taoki> Then, separately, maybe we can google for all news articles which talk about Nexuiz (be them years old) and ask them to change the names, if the admins and system would allow that. So people finding them won't be confused too
+ Mar 03 13:43:58 <div0> no, changing news of the past is bad
+ Mar 03 13:44:00 <div0> don't go there
+ Mar 03 13:44:08 <Taoki> hmm ok then
+ Mar 03 13:44:10 <div0> those who rewrite history are damned to repeat it :P
+ Mar 03 13:44:21 <Taoki> makes sense :)
+ Mar 03 13:44:26 <div0> but, it'd be nice if they could write an update note to the articles :P
+ Mar 03 13:45:00 <Taoki> Yeah, would be excellent. Enough so someone who seen Nexuiz disappeared and goodles Nexuiz gets an article on the first page mentioning it got renamed
+ Mar 03 13:45:27 <[-z-]> I can still post news
+ Mar 03 13:45:34 <[-z-]> I haven't because Vermeulen said he was going to
+ Mar 03 13:45:46 <[-z-]> but he hasn't
+ Mar 03 13:47:10 <[-z-]> unizex :-P
+ Mar 03 13:47:22 <Taoki> :P
+ Mar 03 13:47:28 <[-z-]> zenuxi
+ Mar 03 13:47:45 <[-z-]> zah new zi
+ Mar 03 13:48:43 <[-z-]> have we decided on a name of either the group or game?
+ Mar 03 13:48:51 <Taoki> I like Zeniux or something similar... that was a good idea Dokujisan included.
+ Mar 03 13:49:50 <Taoki> Or Zenuix, would resemble the old name more
+ Mar 03 13:53:26 <div0> we should test the name ideas somehow
+ Mar 03 13:53:38 <div0> like, try them in a typing test software :P
+ Mar 03 13:53:44 <div0> to see which variant gets more misztakes
+ Mar 03 13:55:06 <[-z-]> zenuix sounds the smoothest of all the paladrome names thrown out and is more phonetic than nexuiz :-P
+ Mar 03 13:55:06 <Dokujisan> whatever happens with the name, I would like to spend some time to brainstorm for the right name that has an available .com
+ Mar 03 13:55:21 <Dokujisan> and not pick a name hastily
+ Mar 03 13:56:24 <[-z-]> group name first might help decide the game name
+ Mar 03 13:57:06 <[-z-]> who are we? what brings us together? what are we looking to achieve? who are we looking to attract?
+ Mar 03 13:57:09 <Dokujisan> oh right
+ Mar 03 13:57:11 <Dokujisan> the group name
+ Mar 03 13:57:33 <Dokujisan> with getty, we came up with conflict industries for that group. That works well. For this group... um.....
+ Mar 03 13:58:40 <Taoki> I had been thinking something I mentioned it ysterday. Does anyone believe we may be better without a group name? I seen many projects like that... there are just contributors and no group with a different name. Or they're called "TheProjectName Team"
+ Mar 03 13:58:59 <Taoki> This could, from some angles, and some ways, seem a little bit more free too
+ Mar 03 13:59:20 <Dokujisan> the group name really helps. If the group does not intend to make any other games, then it can go without a separate group, but a name based on the game name
+ Mar 03 13:59:24 <[-z-]> well... it takes a lot of people working together to design, create and distribute te game.
+ Mar 03 14:00:03 <[-z-]> we'll continue to accept contributions and patches from outside parties, divVerent has actually proposed a good way to setup git to accompany this
+ Mar 03 14:00:27 <Dokujisan> like alientrap always intended to make more games than nexuiz. Conflict industries intends to do the same. If this "New Nexuiz" group doesn't intend to make other games, then the group name can be like "Nexuiz Team"
+ Mar 03 14:00:40 <Dokujisan> like my Kickboxing form (called Ax) I call the moderators the "Ax Team"
+ Mar 03 14:01:07 <[-z-]> I'd like to hope we could create more games if not projects together
+ Mar 03 14:01:16 <Taoki> yeah
+ Mar 03 14:01:35 <[-z-]> there are already a few mods that run on top of nexuiz, who knows which way they'll go after the fork
+ Mar 03 14:02:03 <[-z-]> if alientrap drops support, then they'll likely run off our game code
+ Mar 03 14:03:36 <Dokujisan> ok I'm not against the idea of this group working on other games. Sounds great.
+ Mar 03 14:03:38 <Taoki> I play two other games (about different things) which are open source, and not officially developed by a specific team. Just for the note if anyone's curious, they are Vdrift http://vdrift.net/ (best opensource car game imo) and glest http://glest.org/en/index.php (best opensource rts game)
+ Mar 03 14:05:11 <Taoki> On the about page of Glest, they say "Glest is made by a bunch of friends, most of them from Spain". Of course this doesn't mean it would be the best idea for Nexuiz.
+ Mar 03 14:05:15 <[-z-]> someone still has to be in control at some point
+ Mar 03 14:05:27 <Taoki> yeah
+ Mar 03 14:05:40 <[-z-]> we're trying to build a group that won't die from having a single or even just 2 leaders
+ Mar 03 14:06:00 <[-z-]> but rather a board or committee, divVerent would like to see 3
+ Mar 03 14:06:03 <Dokujisan> ok what is a creative way of describing that arrangement
+ Mar 03 14:06:17 <Dokujisan> even imagery
+ Mar 03 14:06:24 <[-z-]> who me or Taoki?
+ Mar 03 14:06:28 <Dokujisan> like a wheel with spokes
+ Mar 03 14:06:30 <Dokujisan> you
+ Mar 03 14:07:00 <Dokujisan> the arrangement of the group, or the method upon which it is created
+ Mar 03 14:07:17 <[-z-]> a wheel with spokes connecting to a group (committee) in the center
+ Mar 03 14:09:07 <div0> shouldn't group name the same as the game name?
+ Mar 03 14:09:29 <Dokujisan> well as I said earlier, that depends on whether the group works on multiple games
+ Mar 03 14:09:33 <Dokujisan> if it's just one game, then sure
+ Mar 03 14:09:43 <div0> I don't think we want to
+ Mar 03 14:09:51 <div0> maybe as side projects, with not all members part of it
+ Mar 03 14:10:03 <div0> but that can then be a new group, cooperating with the "nexuiz group"
+ Mar 03 14:10:13 <Dokujisan> ok. I'm fine with that
+ Mar 03 14:10:26 <div0> I mean, such groups are not exclusive
+ Mar 03 14:10:33 <[-z-]> isn't that just a more complicated way of saying we'll figure out a team name later?
+ Mar 03 14:10:37 <div0> e.g. Taoki made that spinoff game once, didn't he?
+ Mar 03 14:10:41 <div0> We could cooperate in that too :P
+ Mar 03 14:10:44 <[-z-]> he's still working on it
+ Mar 03 14:10:47 <div0> e.g. when I provide a build system...
+ Mar 03 14:10:57 <div0> I can happily use my build system for his project too
+ Mar 03 14:11:08 <Dokujisan> I like the idea of just calling it <gamename> Team
+ Mar 03 14:11:10 <div0> even without being part of his development
+ Mar 03 14:11:14 <div0> yes, so do I
+ Mar 03 14:11:54 <[-z-]> k, whatever, I don't care that much about the name
+ Mar 03 14:12:01 <Taoki> That own game i'm making from Nexuiz? I still work on it... just took a brake now since i worked on it a lot at first
+ Mar 03 14:12:17 <Taoki> Also waiting for FruitieX's HUD changes, i'll have to merge these with my hud and stuff. But yeah
+ Mar 03 14:12:27 <Dokujisan> I'm also interested in that game, btw
+ Mar 03 14:12:30 <div0> I just still don't like Zenuix...
+ Mar 03 14:12:34 <Dokujisan> ok
+ Mar 03 14:12:40 <div0> I am not sure if I am interested in that game
+ Mar 03 14:12:48 <[-z-]> it doesn't even have to ben a palindrome
+ Mar 03 14:12:53 <div0> but even if not, I'd have no reason to not help out with e.g. making its release builds
+ Mar 03 14:12:55 <[-z-]> err
+ Mar 03 14:12:59 <Taoki> Thanks Dokujisan :) Not sure how it will be like... it will be something of a different theme. Not sure if i can get it to what i want it to be
+ Mar 03 14:13:01 <div0> anagram
+ Mar 03 14:13:04 <[-z-]> yes, that one :)
+ Mar 03 14:13:08 <Dokujisan> well I like the theme that you described
+ Mar 03 14:13:14 <div0> zenuiz may be better than zenuix BTW
+ Mar 03 14:13:21 <div0> because, I have typo'd zenuiz when trying to write zenuix
+ Mar 03 14:13:49 <[-z-]> xenuiz?
+ Mar 03 14:13:52 <div0> no
+ Mar 03 14:13:55 <div0> that sounds like Xen
+ Mar 03 14:13:57 <div0> which was a flop
+ Mar 03 14:14:04 <Taoki> I'd still like the wat the first name sounds more
+ Mar 03 14:14:14 <div0> which?
+ Mar 03 14:14:29 <Taoki> Zenuix
+ Mar 03 14:14:44 <div0> I just find it too hard to remmeber/type
+ Mar 03 14:14:48 <div0> sort of the same fault as Nexuiz has
+ Mar 03 14:15:06 <Taoki> Yeah, but it kinda sounds and looks prettier
+ Mar 03 14:15:29 <div0> is it pronounced Zen-u-ix, Ze-nu-ix, ze-nu-i-kku-su, or or Zen-i-us?
+ Mar 03 14:15:41 <[-z-]> first
+ Mar 03 14:15:46 <div0> not zenuikkusu?
+ Mar 03 14:15:53 <[-z-]> I mean, you can if you want
+ Mar 03 14:16:03 <div0> (latter is how the japanese would pronounce zenuix)
+ Mar 03 14:16:41 <[-z-]> zenuiz (not japanese)
+ Mar 03 14:16:54 <div0> that name would be way more japanese friendly :P
+ Mar 03 14:16:54 <[-z-]> haha, I just typoed zenuix too
+ Mar 03 14:17:10 <div0> zenuizu would be their katakana writing of it
+ Mar 03 14:17:11 <[-z-]> zen you iz
+ Mar 03 14:17:28 <[-z-]> what does zenuizu mean?
+ Mar 03 14:17:31 <div0> nothing
+ Mar 03 14:17:39 <[-z-]> (we're back with an even harder to pronounce name)
+ Mar 03 14:17:41 <div0> I just spelt it in a sequence of katakana characters
+ Mar 03 14:17:52 <div0> like the japanese do to all foreign words
+ Mar 03 14:17:57 * Dokujisan is brainstorming names and checking for available .coms
+ Mar 03 14:18:01 <div0> e.g. floppy disk = fu-ro-ppi de-i-su-ku
+ Mar 03 14:18:19 <[-z-]> I'm not sure if zenuiz is just because of muscle memory though
+ Mar 03 14:18:27 <div0> yes
+ Mar 03 14:18:29 <[-z-]> what if you asked a random person to type it
+ Mar 03 14:18:29 <div0> that may be too
+ Mar 03 14:18:43 <div0> basically... I think it maybe shouldn't have an ui in it :P
+ Mar 03 14:18:47 <[-z-]> haha
+ Mar 03 14:18:56 <[-z-]> that actually made it easier for me to spell
+ Mar 03 14:18:57 <div0> Inflexion Uzi CL
+ Mar 03 14:19:02 <div0> an anagram to illfonicnexuiz
+ Mar 03 14:19:08 <[-z-]> ;)
+ Mar 03 14:19:38 <[-z-]> necksuiz
+ Mar 03 14:19:49 <div0> no, does not solve anything :P
+ Mar 03 14:19:55 <[-z-]> makes it worse lol :)
+ Mar 03 14:19:58 <div0> yes
+ Mar 03 14:20:02 <div0> zeckniuz
+ Mar 03 14:20:14 <div0> no
+ Mar 03 14:20:19 <[-z-]> zexiznice
+ Mar 03 14:20:20 <div0> sounds like a zecke, evil animal in germany
+ Mar 03 14:20:29 <div0> Zexiz
+ Mar 03 14:20:32 <div0> haha :P
+ Mar 03 14:20:33 <div0> "Sex-is"
+ Mar 03 14:20:40 <div0> oh wait
+ Mar 03 14:20:46 <div0> you actually intended that
+ Mar 03 14:20:49 <[-z-]> yeah :-P
+ Mar 03 14:21:04 <[-z-]> I would never suggest that as a real game name lol
+ Mar 03 14:21:08 <div0> Xettius
+ Mar 03 14:21:15 <[-z-]> :mind sploded:
+ Mar 03 14:21:18 <div0> oh, I had first parsed it as "zexis - nice"
+ Mar 03 14:21:26 <div0> *z
+ Mar 03 14:21:29 <[-z-]> hehe
+ Mar 03 14:21:49 <div0> Textius - the text adventure port
+ Mar 03 14:22:03 <Dokujisan> man... a lot of strange domain names are already taken
+ Mar 03 14:22:05 <[-z-]> do we even want to stick with these weird arrangements of letters?
+ Mar 03 14:22:08 <Dokujisan> AVAILABLE .COMs
+ Mar 03 14:22:08 <Dokujisan> nexotus
+ Mar 03 14:22:08 <Dokujisan> nexilus
+ Mar 03 14:22:08 <Dokujisan> zeniux
+ Mar 03 14:22:08 <Dokujisan> xepharis
+ Mar 03 14:22:08 <Dokujisan> xaleco
+ Mar 03 14:22:08 <Dokujisan> xeleka
+ Mar 03 14:22:08 <Dokujisan> xeleca
+ Mar 03 14:22:08 <Dokujisan> xelecon
+ Mar 03 14:22:10 <div0> You are standing on a pink reflecting floor. You hear rocket noises.+
+ Mar 03 14:22:12 <div0> > GO LEFT
+ Mar 03 14:22:21 <div0> does anyone recognize the map?
+ Mar 03 14:22:21 <[-z-]> we want a .org though, no?
+ Mar 03 14:22:25 <div0> see, text adventure works
+ Mar 03 14:22:26 <div0> yes
+ Mar 03 14:22:31 <Dokujisan> if the .com is available, the .org definitely is
+ Mar 03 14:22:34 <Dokujisan> and I think we should get both
+ Mar 03 14:22:38 <Dokujisan> and redirect the .com
+ Mar 03 14:22:44 <div0> Xepharis wtf
+ Mar 03 14:22:49 <div0> reminds of the old Project Alaris
+ Mar 03 14:22:57 <Dokujisan> just brainstorming. I started with nex*
+ Mar 03 14:22:58 <[-z-]> xenuiz haha (xenu is)
+ Mar 03 14:23:03 <Dokujisan> haha
+ Mar 03 14:23:13 <div0> no, cannot accept that with my belief :P
+ Mar 03 14:23:22 <[-z-]> haha, I'm just kidding
+ Mar 03 14:23:28 <div0> but I would never have spotted it
+ Mar 03 14:23:42 <[-z-]> ?
+ Mar 03 14:23:48 <div0> rather rejected that suggestion above because it started with Xen, and Xen was unsuccessful virtualization
+ Mar 03 14:23:55 <[-z-]> ah yes :-P
+ Mar 03 14:23:58 <div0> (replaced by KVM)
+ Mar 03 14:24:23 <div0> Davius
+ Mar 03 14:24:27 <div0> from [Dave]
+ Mar 03 14:24:30 <[-z-]> :-P
+ Mar 03 14:24:33 <Dokujisan> haha
+ Mar 03 14:24:44 <[-z-]> daviuz?
+ Mar 03 14:24:48 <div0> or maybe even Daviuz
+ Mar 03 14:24:57 <div0> but it gets in the hard-to-spell region again
+ Mar 03 14:25:01 <div0> Dave Ius
+ Mar 03 14:25:07 <div0> "The justice of Dave"+
+ Mar 03 14:25:14 <[-z-]> davefps
+ Mar 03 14:25:21 <div0> DaveDaveDave
+ Mar 03 14:25:24 <[-z-]> or just dave
+ Mar 03 14:25:30 <div0> KillDave
+ Mar 03 14:25:38 <[-z-]> killdavekill
+ Mar 03 14:26:01 <[-z-]> gokilldave
+ Mar 03 14:26:02 <div0> OMGTKDave
+ Mar 03 14:26:12 <div0> (Bastards edition)
+ Mar 03 14:26:30 <div0> Davidiuz
+ Mar 03 14:26:38 <[-z-]> davefps.org is available
+ Mar 03 14:26:51 <div0> is anyone here called Dave? :P
+ Mar 03 14:26:58 <div0> I mean, apart from everyone ;)
+ Mar 03 14:27:01 <[-z-]> :-P
+ Mar 03 14:27:05 <[-z-]> no
+ Mar 03 14:27:15 <div0> BTW, I had reliable sources tell me that morphed would be in our team too
+ Mar 03 14:27:30 <Dokujisan> I suspect that most would want to move over
+ Mar 03 14:27:36 <div0> just wanted to say
+ Mar 03 14:27:40 <div0> if we can even get morphed
+ Mar 03 14:27:42 <Dokujisan> but yes, that is good
+ Mar 03 14:27:43 <div0> we'd get everyone :P
+ Mar 03 14:27:46 <[-z-]> it's good to have his support
+ Mar 03 14:28:10 <div0> morphed may work uncleanly, and be a bit weird-creative... so he often has to be put in his bounds :P but we need that creativity
+ Mar 03 14:28:11 <[-z-]> we need to get setup so we have something for them to move to
+ Mar 03 14:28:17 <Dokujisan> is it possible to do this without telling mikee about it?
+ Mar 03 14:28:24 <div0> no
+ Mar 03 14:28:28 <Dokujisan> :-)
+ Mar 03 14:28:29 <div0> but we can wait with telling mikee
+ Mar 03 14:28:34 <div0> mikee isn't too clever to find out on his own
+ Mar 03 14:28:47 <div0> it's just that he reads the forum
+ Mar 03 14:28:55 <div0> as for hosting... well, we could use the icculus repository
+ Mar 03 14:29:03 <div0> but I'd prefer it on the new domain
+ Mar 03 14:29:10 <[-z-]> is everyone good with davefps ?
+ Mar 03 14:29:14 <div0> [-z-]: how expensive is domain hosting with "sort of unlimited" traffic?
+ Mar 03 14:29:18 <div0> DaveFPS... not so sure yet
+ Mar 03 14:29:20 <div0> but maybe
+ Mar 03 14:29:21 <[-z-]> ~$120 a year
+ Mar 03 14:29:22 <div0> a bit too generic maybe
+ Mar 03 14:29:24 <div0> googling it
+ Mar 03 14:29:31 <div0> $10 a month... sounds okay
+ Mar 03 14:29:35 <div0> so we could put the git on it too
+ Mar 03 14:29:42 <div0> and with shell access?
+ Mar 03 14:29:46 <div0> (for making the builds)
+ Mar 03 14:29:47 <[-z-]> I believe they support git now yes
+ Mar 03 14:29:52 <[-z-]> and multiple unix accounts, yes
+ Mar 03 14:29:58 <div0> they don't have to support git :P
+ Mar 03 14:30:01 <[-z-]> and sftp only accounts
+ Mar 03 14:30:09 <div0> we can install it in one of the unix accounts
+ Mar 03 14:30:13 <div0> and set up gitolite on it
+ Mar 03 14:30:22 <div0> that is actually how you host git
+ Mar 03 14:30:28 <[-z-]> div0: well they also have a web frontend, I don't know how helpful it is for setting up git though
+ Mar 03 14:30:41 <div0> only problem wqould be the git daemon, that probably would require asking them and them saying "go ahead, you can use the network port"
+ Mar 03 14:30:54 <div0> for repository write access you go through ssh anyway
+ Mar 03 14:31:10 <[-z-]> http://wiki.dreamhost.com/Git
+ Mar 03 14:31:17 <div0> for the record, git is port 9418
+ Mar 03 14:31:24 <Taoki> I need to go for the next 1-2 hours. See you all when I get back, take care. I'll try to think of a new name more :)
+ Mar 03 14:31:37 <[-z-]> okay Taoki, see you
+ Mar 03 14:32:19 <div0> only problem is, they write that they currently do not support git-daemon
+ Mar 03 14:32:21 <div0> that is a setback
+ Mar 03 14:32:31 <[-z-]> well, why not stay on icculus?
+ Mar 03 14:32:45 <div0> could do that too, at least for a start
+ Mar 03 14:32:47 <Dokujisan> isn't icculus slow?
+ Mar 03 14:32:51 <div0> that it is
+ Mar 03 14:32:53 <Dokujisan> I always got that impression from it
+ Mar 03 14:32:57 <div0> I just think this should be hosted on the project domain, if possible
+ Mar 03 14:33:08 <div0> if nothing else works, we can still offer the git read access via http
+ Mar 03 14:33:12 <div0> but that will sometimes fail
+ Mar 03 14:33:39 <div0> can still have a readonly clone of it on other hosts :P
+ Mar 03 14:34:01 <[-z-]> hmm, I can't really offer the vps up if it's going to be running gameservers
+ Mar 03 14:34:04 <div0> so actually, we could offer readonly access via http or on icculus, and otherwise use dreamhost
+ Mar 03 14:34:06 <div0> thagt would work
+ Mar 03 14:34:41 <div0> via http may be good enough, git devs say we should not do that, but I don't know why other than one has to regularily call git-update-server-info
+ Mar 03 14:35:17 <Dokujisan> hmm... ok I'm liking xun* as a prefix
+ Mar 03 14:35:40 <[-z-]> I dunno :-\
+ Mar 03 14:35:40 <Dokujisan> man, soooo many strange domain names are taken.
+ Mar 03 14:39:37 <div0> Xunius?
+ Mar 03 14:39:38 <div0> Xunion?
+ Mar 03 14:43:28 <Dokujisan> more avialable .coms...
+ Mar 03 14:43:29 <Dokujisan> xuniam
+ Mar 03 14:43:29 <Dokujisan> xuniox
+ Mar 03 14:43:29 <Dokujisan> xunium
+ Mar 03 14:43:29 <Dokujisan> xundem
+ Mar 03 14:43:29 <Dokujisan> xunius
+ Mar 03 14:43:29 <Dokujisan> xuniux
+ Mar 03 14:43:29 <Dokujisan> xudex
+ Mar 03 14:44:26 <Dokujisan> xodim
+ Mar 03 14:44:35 <div0> [-z-]: does dreamhost support CGI?
+ Mar 03 14:46:50 <div0> because if it does
+ Mar 03 14:46:53 <[-z-]> hmm, I believe so
+ Mar 03 14:46:54 <div0> we can cleanly host git over HTTP
+ Mar 03 14:46:56 <div0> (for newer git clients)
+ Mar 03 14:47:05 <div0> for older clients, it'll fall back to the a bit clumsy HTTP method
+ Mar 03 14:47:06 <div0> but still work
+ Mar 03 14:47:12 <div0> just download more data than needed
+ Mar 03 14:48:11 <div0> oh, cronjobs?
+ Mar 03 14:48:39 <div0> (not THAT important for us, though)
+ Mar 03 14:51:29 <Dokujisan> xodem
+ Mar 03 14:51:29 <Dokujisan> xotux
+ Mar 03 14:51:29 <Dokujisan> nodium
+ Mar 03 14:52:50 <div0> Tuxius
+ Mar 03 14:52:57 <div0> Tuxiuz
+ Mar 03 14:52:59 <div0> is hard to type
+ Mar 03 15:04:02 <Dokujisan> dellum
+ Mar 03 15:04:14 <Dokujisan> nodius
+ Mar 03 15:04:14 <Dokujisan> xodeos
+ Mar 03 15:04:14 <Dokujisan> modiem
+ Mar 03 15:04:14 <Dokujisan> xovium
+ Mar 03 15:04:14 <Dokujisan> xovim
+ Mar 03 15:05:38 <Dokujisan> xendem
+ Mar 03 15:06:13 <Dokujisan> xelod
+ Mar 03 15:06:39 <Dokujisan> xilod
+ Mar 03 15:13:07 <Dokujisan> microsoftiux
+ Mar 03 15:13:10 <Dokujisan> ..j/k
+ Mar 03 17:02:48 <Taoki> Back. Thought abouc a little new bunch of names...
+ Mar 03 17:02:50 <Taoki> *about
+ Mar 03 17:03:16 <Taoki> Not really the best but oh well. My list is:
+ Mar 03 17:03:39 <Taoki> Zenuix, Zenux, Zenus, Nexuz
+ Mar 03 17:03:56 <Taoki> the 2nd and 3rd sound best to me. As for team names,
+ Mar 03 17:05:17 <Taoki> I'm totally not good at these so my ideas are mostly silly. Was still thinking of something with Alien... the only idea that came to my mind was openAlien (please ignore this though... I mean... :P ) Another idea about the team name, was something related to nexuizninjaz, which imo has been a great resource. Something having to do with that would be nice to
+ Mar 03 17:05:38 <Taoki> Like, openNinjaz, Alien Ninjaz... these are just sillq quick thoughts once again
+ Mar 03 17:08:35 <Taoki> Sorry for the several typos >.>
+ Mar 03 17:12:15 <Taoki> What does everyone think? Would Zenux (without the i like my previous suggestion) or Zenus be anything good?
+ Mar 03 17:17:35 <Taoki> I like the idea of something that contains both Z and X
+ Mar 03 18:52:36 <[-z-]> hahaah, mikeeusa's suggestion:
+ Mar 03 18:52:37 <[-z-]> Nexuiz:Depreciated
+ Mar 03 18:53:00 <[-z-]> he goes on to say
+ Mar 03 18:53:02 <[-z-]> "but translated into german so it sounds germanish. German is... a dark tounge. Makes everything sound strenghtful."
+ Mar 03 18:54:34 <Taoki> hehe
+ Mar 03 18:56:15 * Samual (~sam@c-24-131-80-234.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) has joined #notnexuiz
+ Mar 03 18:56:20 <Samual> Heh
+ Mar 03 18:56:21 <Samual> Clever.
+ Mar 03 18:56:31 <[-z-]> welcome Samual
+ Mar 03 18:56:43 <Samual> Who is active/idle?
+ Mar 03 18:56:59 <[-z-]> Taoki is active, div0 and Dokujisan might be around
+ Mar 03 18:57:20 <[-z-]> we were discussing creating a group based around the fork of the yet to be named game
+ Mar 03 18:57:40 <[-z-]> something with a better spread of power distributed across a few "major leaders"
+ Mar 03 18:58:12 <Taoki> I'm hre
+ Mar 03 18:58:16 <Samual> Well meh
+ Mar 03 18:58:34 <[-z-]> we've talked about servers, repository hosting and what not
+ Mar 03 18:58:45 <[-z-]> it sounds like we have enough to continue building releases cross platform
+ Mar 03 18:59:26 <[-z-]> we can take the time to get more organized from a web point of view as well
+ Mar 03 18:59:28 <Samual> It's a huge step to abandon Nexuiz though :P
+ Mar 03 18:59:37 <[-z-]> do you want to stay under alientrap?
+ Mar 03 18:59:52 <Samual> Well
+ Mar 03 19:00:12 <Samual> Vermeulen fails, but it's -- It's still hard to abandon Nexuiz :P
+ Mar 03 19:00:35 <[-z-]> it's no longer nexuiz and the sooner we all accept that, the sooner we can move on
+ Mar 03 19:01:35 <Samual> Meh.
+ Mar 03 19:02:14 <[-z-]> it sucks but there isn't much we can do
+ Mar 03 19:02:33 <Samual> I'd much rather work on a game with new content though.
+ Mar 03 19:04:05 <Samual> Not necessarily different gameplay, just new artwork/design. If there's one thing that has been shown with this is that an overall theme for a game can go a long way to making it look consistently good.
+ Mar 03 19:09:05 <Taoki> New content will come over time. Hopefully, some new artwork too. Of course, I hope no one is really thinking about throwing away everything that has been done in 5 years and starting from a scratch.
+ Mar 03 19:11:24 <Taoki> What was done so far is too good and too important. And I'm sure that in a few years from now, it will be incredible compared to what it is now
+ Mar 03 19:11:43 <Taoki> (I'm still dreaming about this project looking like UT3, someday :P )
+ Mar 03 19:12:44 <[-z-]> I'm willing to submit more and may be able to get more from others, we just need to outline our needs
+ Mar 03 19:14:14 <Taoki> I wish I could model. I can hardly make a boulder in Blender though :(
+ Mar 03 19:15:08 <Taoki> I can edit existing models to some point (how I made my vixens from pyria) but new models at the quality of the UT 2k4 / UT 3 guns... those have to be very hard to make
+ Mar 03 19:20:58 <Samual> lawl anyway I think i'm done with Nexuiz officially now, since this person clearly has no intention of changing the name and he doesn't want to listen to the community much.
+ Mar 03 19:22:33 <Taoki> It would be sad if you left, Samural. Would be sad if anyone really left...
+ Mar 03 19:26:29 <Samual> lawl well everyone here has been discussing leaving too anyway
+ Mar 03 19:26:54 * [-z-] gives channel operator status to Samual
+ Mar 03 19:26:58 <Taoki> If anyone wants to leave, it is of course their choice. I just want to highlight that... in my vision this is not a reason to completely loose faith. Because the project we kept working on for all these years is still here, and will always be here. So if we were with Nexuiz for these years because we liked -it-, although this has undoubtfully upset us greatly, we can keep being with it from now on
+ Mar 03 19:27:44 <[-z-]> I just don't want to work for a "Company" that represents such shiesty practices
+ Mar 03 19:27:46 <Taoki> It is still th same code, same experience, etc. If the reason was to modify this code, and parts of what the game is now, and to enjoy what exists in it, then this won't stop us
+ Mar 03 19:28:43 <Taoki> Whatever its name will change to, its the same thing you will see when you load a map or the menu. Except the name banner which will be changed too. That doesn't go away... if thats what we've been with Nexuiz for we haven't lost anything.
+ Mar 03 19:31:15 <Dokujisan> hey Samual
+ Mar 03 19:31:30 <Samual> Hai.
+ Mar 03 19:31:46 <Dokujisan> here is what I've searched so far in terms of domain names
+ Mar 03 19:31:48 <Dokujisan> http://pastie.org/private/z1hlw1gs1d4nrxdvbisxsw
+ Mar 03 19:33:17 <Taoki> Right... i wax curious what everyone thinks of my last two name ideas
+ Mar 03 19:33:18 <Taoki> [00:11:51] <@Taoki> What does everyone think? Would Zenux (without the i like my previous suggestion) or Zenus be anything good?
+ Mar 03 19:33:44 <Dokujisan> I always go by available domain names
+ Mar 03 19:33:50 <Dokujisan> and zenux.com isn't available
+ Mar 03 19:34:11 <Dokujisan> otherwise, that's a good name to consider
+ Mar 03 19:34:59 <Taoki> hmm...
+ Mar 03 19:38:14 <Taoki> From that list, my favs would be zeniux, xaleco, xuniox, xodeos
+ Mar 03 19:38:16 * Rad_Ished (~Dooley@cpc3-aztw19-0-0-cust362.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #notnexuiz
+ Mar 03 19:38:21 <[-z-]> hey Rad_Ished
+ Mar 03 19:38:25 <Taoki> hi
+ Mar 03 19:38:39 <[-z-]> zeniux or zenuiz?
+ Mar 03 19:38:40 <Rad_Ished> hey folks, i like not nexuiz
+ Mar 03 19:38:43 <Rad_Ished> good name
+ Mar 03 19:38:54 <[-z-]> Rad_Ished: we've been trying to come up with a real one :-P
+ Mar 03 19:38:59 <Rad_Ished> heh
+ Mar 03 19:39:17 <Taoki> z, I would prefer the first between the two
+ Mar 03 19:39:18 <Rad_Ished> zenuiz works for me
+ Mar 03 19:39:27 <Rad_Ished> ahhh zexnuix
+ Mar 03 19:39:37 <Taoki> zeniux
+ Mar 03 19:39:39 <Rad_Ished> i meant argh
+ Mar 03 19:39:43 <[-z-]> nexzex
+ Mar 03 19:39:45 <Rad_Ished> yeh , what he said
+ Mar 03 19:39:50 <Rad_Ished> nooo
+ Mar 03 19:40:00 <Rad_Ished> zeniux
+ Mar 03 19:40:14 <Rad_Ished> i don't feel im really adding anything here
+ Mar 03 19:40:24 <Dokujisan> <Dokujisan> here is what I've searched so far in terms of domain names
+ Mar 03 19:40:24 <Dokujisan> <Dokujisan> http://pastie.org/private/z1hlw1gs1d4nrxdvbisxsw
+ Mar 03 19:40:46 <Rad_Ished> i thought that mikee's post was profound
+ Mar 03 19:40:49 <[-z-]> we want a .org though, no?
+ Mar 03 19:41:21 <[-z-]> xenix lol
+ Mar 03 19:41:22 <[-z-]> penix
+ Mar 03 19:41:51 <Taoki> Atm, my vote's on zeniux / zenuix / zenius
+ Mar 03 19:41:53 <Taoki> :P
+ Mar 03 19:42:05 <Taoki> or derivates of these
+ Mar 03 19:42:06 <Samual> Sexuiz is good
+ Mar 03 19:42:10 <Samual> But well
+ Mar 03 19:42:12 <Rad_Ished> zenuix
+ Mar 03 19:42:13 <Taoki> :))
+ Mar 03 19:42:31 <Samual> Zexun?
+ Mar 03 19:42:36 <[-z-]> haha, bit of trivia for ya'll, "throng" is a crowd of people
+ Mar 03 19:42:49 <[-z-]> zexin
+ Mar 03 19:42:57 <Samual> Zexin too
+ Mar 03 19:43:02 <Samual> I like that >.>
+ Mar 03 19:43:03 <[-z-]> zexin.org AVAILABLE
+ Mar 03 19:43:19 <Samual> ^_^
+ Mar 03 19:43:23 <Samual> .com?
+ Mar 03 19:43:27 <[-z-]> 5 letters, not bad
+ Mar 03 19:43:29 <[-z-]> no .com is taken
+ Mar 03 19:43:32 <[-z-]> but do we want .com?
+ Mar 03 19:43:32 <Taoki> Zexin sounds goodish, yeah
+ Mar 03 19:43:43 <[-z-]> sqautter has it
+ Mar 03 19:44:10 <Samual> Nizex?
+ Mar 03 19:44:12 <Samual> lawl
+ Mar 03 19:46:02 <[-z-]> nexiz.org AVAILABLE
+ Mar 03 19:46:09 <[-z-]> probably too similar
+ Mar 03 19:46:14 <Samual> Yeah that's too similar
+ Mar 03 19:46:14 <Samual> lawl
+ Mar 03 19:52:29 <Dokujisan> I really think it's valuable to have the .com
+ Mar 03 19:52:44 <Dokujisan> but if we don't have that as a requirement, then scan through those names I checked that are not available .coms
+ Mar 03 19:53:00 <[-z-]> yean but we're not really a company?
+ Mar 03 19:53:04 <[-z-]> more an organization
+ Mar 03 19:53:06 <Dokujisan> it's not about that
+ Mar 03 19:53:09 <Dokujisan> people know .coms
+ Mar 03 19:53:21 <Dokujisan> when they look for a website, they look for a .com
+ Mar 03 19:53:22 <Dokujisan> first
+ Mar 03 19:53:52 <Taoki> true
+ Mar 03 19:55:05 <Dokujisan> I can't count how many times I accidentally went to alientrap.com
+ Mar 03 19:57:45 <Taoki> From my favorite names, zeniux.com seems to be the only one in that list
+ Mar 03 19:58:31 <Taoki> When will the name be finally decided? I think, there are a few choices now. I was thinking of taking our top 5-6 ideas for names (if we have that much) and making a pool on the forums
+ Mar 03 19:59:18 <Dokujisan> I think we should definitely take time to pick the name
+ Mar 03 19:59:43 <Dokujisan> in the meantime, a lot of discussion can be done about other details
+ Mar 03 20:01:37 * Rad_Ished has quit ("haha.. AAAHHHAAAaaARRR!!! .. ow")
+ Mar 03 20:05:16 <Taoki> Well, now that I brought that up. When might Nexuiz have player, item and weapon models that would make it look super-modern like Quake4 / UT3? Of course they won't fall from the sky, but I've wondered that for a while
+ Mar 03 20:05:34 <Taoki> http://www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/365/quake4_t.jpg / http://www.happypenguin.org/images/quake4.jpg Just imagining Nexuiz looking like that sometime... :)
+ Mar 03 20:10:29 <Dokujisan> well one thing that could have been handled better in existing nexuiz is recruitment. I have talked to a large handful of people who were interested in getting involved in nexuiz, but they weren't given enough direction or help with getting involved and they ended up leaving.
+ Mar 03 20:11:06 <Dokujisan> people who handle recruitment and managing newcomers to the project don't need to be top developers
+ Mar 03 20:11:24 <Dokujisan> especially if there is some sort of outline for that sort of thing
+ Mar 03 20:12:15 <Dokujisan> there was only one official push (to my knowledge) from alientrap to attract new developers, and I think that effort seemed pretty successful in attracting developers
+ Mar 03 20:12:24 <Dokujisan> but a lot of those developers showed and then eventually left
+ Mar 03 20:12:47 <Dokujisan> so more campaigns to attract more talent to the project woudl be very helpful
+ Mar 03 20:13:14 <Dokujisan> these are the kinds of things that should be a part of an open source game like this, imo
+ Mar 03 20:20:36 <Taoki> I agree. I seen posts about people who wanted to come and help, but after that we haven't heard anything about them
+ Mar 03 20:22:36 <Dokujisan> I always though that if I were a part of alientrap, I would have personally talked with those people to make sure they are kept informed and busy
+ Mar 03 20:23:01 <Dokujisan> but as a simple member of the community, it wasn't really my place. I didn't even know who was coming to alientrap
+ Mar 03 20:26:02 <Taoki> yeah
+ Mar 03 20:37:06 <Samual> I contacted most the people on the "We need developers" thread.
+ Mar 03 20:38:08 <Samual> --- Most of the time they were interested and sent emails back, but they never really showed up.
+ Mar 03 21:03:39 <Taoki> Sorry for the delay... got busy with some other things from another channel. Going to bed in a minute too. Anyway, I know some topics were fional works are already released, but there was no feedback given on it.
+ Mar 03 21:04:29 <Taoki> blkrbt still has 3 songs ready to be committed for at least 4 months iirc. Same as tZork's songs, about 8 of them I think (if I remember correctly again). There was also someone who made an awesome high quality robot model 6 months ago, no one said anything about that either.
+ Mar 03 21:04:35 <Taoki> Maybe i should try finding that topic again
+ Mar 03 21:12:40 * TVR (~TVR@96.49.107.196) has joined #notnexuiz
+ Mar 03 21:13:02 <TVR> Glad to see you are all on board.
+ Mar 03 21:14:34 <Taoki> Hello :)
+ Mar 03 21:15:41 <TVR> Hey Taoki, has tZork been notified?
+ Mar 03 21:15:49 <Taoki> What about?
+ Mar 03 21:20:08 <TVR> He doesn't seem pleased about the actions of Vermeulen and LordHavoc selling a GPL version of his source code.
+ Mar 03 21:21:19 <Taoki> Yeah, he spoke about this on the channel too. Hope he won't be leaving the project, would be sad if anyone did
+ Mar 03 21:21:27 <Taoki> Aah, found what I was looking for.
+ Mar 03 21:21:34 <Taoki> I'll post all 3 links
+ Mar 03 21:23:10 <TVR> Yes, that would be great.
+ Mar 03 21:24:09 <Taoki> http://alientrap.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=69763#p69763 - The robot model I mentioned. Imo it looks awesome. No one gave any feedback since Novemver 2009.
+ Mar 03 21:24:09 <Taoki> http://www.alientrap.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=74456#p74456 Scorp's songs (not tzork sorry), only the on for the tutorial map included.
+ Mar 03 21:24:09 <Taoki> http://forum.alientrap.org/viewtopic.php?p=70446#p70446 3 songs by blkrbt, which haven't been reviewed for many months either
+ Mar 03 21:24:31 <Taoki> Sorry about that TVR... posted before mentioning some forgotten contributions previously
+ Mar 03 21:25:21 <Taoki> And these are only the ones I know of
+ Mar 03 21:26:18 <TVR> Is that media FOSS?
+ Mar 03 21:26:45 <Taoki> Not sure... it shold be gpl iirc
+ Mar 03 21:27:23 <Taoki> Anyway, i need to run now. Late here. See you all tomorrow
+ Mar 03 21:30:36 <[-z-]> wtf keybord
+ Mar 03 21:30:53 <[-z-]> /\ /\nd $ $topped working
+ Mar 03 21:32:09 <TVR> Totally unresponsive?
+ Mar 03 21:43:48 * Taoki has quit (Ping timeout: 364 seconds)
+ Mar 03 21:57:48 <[-z-]> working again
+ Mar 04 00:13:12 <TVR> [-z-]: Have you contacted the Free Software Foundation, and/or EFF?
+ Mar 04 01:54:12 * TVR has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
+ Mar 04 03:35:37 <div0> Zenux is a Linux distro (or should be).
+ Mar 04 03:35:46 <div0> Zenus... well, I would like to keep the x somewhere :P
+ Mar 04 03:35:52 <div0> OpenAlien... please not ;)
+ Mar 04 03:35:57 <div0> (AlienArena, OpenArena...)
+ Mar 04 03:36:33 <div0> [01:00:49] <Samual> Vermeulen fails, but it's -- It's still hard to abandon Nexuiz :P
+ Mar 04 03:36:35 <div0> [01:01:11] <@[-z-]> it's no longer nexuiz and the sooner we all accept that, the sooner we can move on
+ Mar 04 03:36:39 <div0> it's not abandoning, but just renaming
+ Mar 04 03:36:44 <div0> we wouldn't have to abandon much
+ Mar 04 03:36:55 <div0> maybe we should abandon the old evil* texture sets if we release under a new name anyway
+ Mar 04 03:37:34 <div0> and half the maps :P
+ Mar 04 03:37:45 <div0> on the other hand, we CAN include quite some public released maps of our taste :P
+ Mar 04 03:37:51 <div0> (but please not ANY greatwall)
+ Mar 04 03:38:17 <div0> So actually... why don't we go for a teamplay focus in the "forked game"?
+ Mar 04 03:38:41 <div0> let's try to include 5 CTF maps, and 5 DM maps that ALSO are suitable for keyhunt and Domination, and 2 or 3 Onslaught maps
+ Mar 04 03:58:06 <div0> [03:24:50] <@Taoki> http://www.alientrap.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=74456#p74456 Scorp's songs (not tzork sorry), only the on for the tutorial map included.
+ Mar 04 03:58:08 <div0> [03:24:50] <@Taoki> http://forum.alientrap.org/viewtopic.php?p=70446#p70446 3 songs by blkrbt, which haven't been reviewed for many months either
+ Mar 04 03:58:18 <div0> as for songs: I normally like to include them only when they are actually used by the game
+ Mar 04 03:58:27 <div0> but well, this would now be a good point to do it, and remove some songs by elysis :P
+ Mar 04 05:11:41 <div0> okay, I finished the flaw in the player ID system I proposed :P
+ Mar 04 05:19:21 <div0> http://paste.debian.net/62392/
+ Mar 04 05:19:31 <div0> note: the patent for Schnorr identification expired last year :P
+ Mar 04 05:20:04 <div0> so we can actually use it
+ Mar 04 05:20:36 <div0> this prtoocol generates a player ID the generating server cannot trace back...
+ Mar 04 05:20:56 <div0> and the old version had the flaw that an attacker who sniffed the ID of another player can impersonate him by simply providing the same ID
+ Mar 04 05:33:54 <div0> that is then almost the perfect player ID system - nobody has to trust anyone for it to work :P
+ Mar 04 05:34:17 <div0> (well, one has to trust the client application that it actually does perform the protocol... but in open source that can be verified easily)
+ Mar 04 06:15:44 <Dokujisan> <div0> So actually... why don't we go for a teamplay focus in the "forked game"?
+ Mar 04 06:15:49 <Dokujisan> I like that thinking
+ Mar 04 06:18:04 <Dokujisan> <div0> it's not abandoning, but just renaming
+ Mar 04 06:18:04 <Dokujisan> <div0> we wouldn't have to abandon much
+ Mar 04 06:18:25 <Dokujisan> the one thing that I'm hopeful for is the ability to do the things in this fork that weren't done in previous nexuiz
+ Mar 04 06:19:07 <div0> which are?
+ Mar 04 06:19:44 <Dokujisan> If I had my way, I would take these community-driven efforts that I've done in nexuiz and ramp them up, place heavy focus on them
+ Mar 04 06:20:06 <div0> well, which are these?
+ Mar 04 06:20:15 <Dokujisan> ok I'll explain what I've done...
+ Mar 04 06:20:28 <div0> I mean, do you mean stuff game code-wise, or stuff "representation wise"?
+ Mar 04 06:20:45 <Dokujisan> activity-wise
+ Mar 04 06:20:48 <Dokujisan> like creating tournaments
+ Mar 04 06:20:49 <div0> ah, great then
+ Mar 04 06:20:55 <div0> I have ABSOLUTELY no problem with that
+ Mar 04 06:20:58 <Dokujisan> encouraging people to form clans, and helping them form clans
+ Mar 04 06:21:04 <div0> but I do wonder why not much was done in that direction before
+ Mar 04 06:21:07 <Dokujisan> orgnizing training
+ Mar 04 06:21:11 <div0> but well
+ Mar 04 06:21:24 <div0> what we WILL gain, is a website that does not have to look "professional" like a company site
+ Mar 04 06:21:24 <Dokujisan> setting up a training server and "hiring" some trainers
+ Mar 04 06:21:28 <div0> so we CAN post recent stuff there
+ Mar 04 06:21:34 <div0> and announce events, and like that
+ Mar 04 06:22:06 <div0> also...
+ Mar 04 06:22:13 <div0> when we don't have to act all "professional"...
+ Mar 04 06:22:15 <Dokujisan> and over the past 6-8 months I have formed a group of people who are mappers, or they learned mapping, and I had them working on various map projects
+ Mar 04 06:22:19 <div0> why not put some servers in the default favorites?
+ Mar 04 06:22:20 <Dokujisan> like "fixing" maps
+ Mar 04 06:22:23 <div0> e.g. that training server :P
+ Mar 04 06:22:28 <Dokujisan> and converting maps from DM -> CTF
+ Mar 04 06:22:44 <div0> actually... I would probably ONLY put that training server, and about two beta test servers there
+ Mar 04 06:23:04 <div0> but a training server at the top of the server list WILL help a lot
+ Mar 04 06:23:26 <div0> converting DM -> CTF... not so sure
+ Mar 04 06:23:32 <div0> this never really works out :P
+ Mar 04 06:23:47 <div0> minimanctf is one of the few exceptions
+ Mar 04 06:23:51 <Dokujisan> There were two concepts for training servers. There was mine which was a "bootcamp" server which only had a couple maps on it to allow for a group to be taught by a trainer....and there is the Dojo map concept by -z- and mookow which is like an obstacle course that doesn't require a trainer
+ Mar 04 06:24:16 <div0> not sure if a Dojo server would belong on the top of the server list
+ Mar 04 06:24:19 <div0> bootcamp probably would
+ Mar 04 06:24:20 <Dokujisan> the dojo seems like it would be for getting the "basics" while the bootcamp would be for refining and going from beginner to intermediate or advanced
+ Mar 04 06:24:38 <div0> dojo is interesting for new players? THAT is enw to me
+ Mar 04 06:24:45 <Dokujisan> the bootcamp sessions were like martial arts training that I've done before....lots of drills
+ Mar 04 06:24:49 <div0> IIRC that map was full of very advanced mvoement tricks
+ Mar 04 06:25:05 <div0> but well...
+ Mar 04 06:25:07 <Dokujisan> div0: you should check out the dojo map that mookow is working on. Some very interesting ideas there
+ Mar 04 06:25:16 <Dokujisan> I'll put it up if you want to see
+ Mar 04 06:25:22 <div0> I'd suggest just reserving one or two IPs for use as "newbie training" server
+ Mar 04 06:25:26 <div0> and one more IP for beta tests
+ Mar 04 06:26:11 <Dokujisan> so far, almost everyone that I trained in the bootcamp servers went on to become a nexuiz "regular"
+ Mar 04 06:26:11 <div0> and all these should be by default in the server list (but the beta test server should only be up when actually there is something new to test)
+ Mar 04 06:26:20 <Dokujisan> so it's a great conversion tool
+ Mar 04 06:26:33 <div0> thing is... to me the bootcamp idea sounds way more interesting to a new player
+ Mar 04 06:26:34 <Dokujisan> for building a community and retaining players
+ Mar 04 06:26:41 <div0> obstacle course really isn't everyone's thing
+ Mar 04 06:26:43 <Dokujisan> yeah, but it requires a trainer
+ Mar 04 06:26:52 <Dokujisan> if we can organize trainers properly
+ Mar 04 06:26:56 <Dokujisan> then that will work wonderfully
+ Mar 04 06:27:07 <div0> even if there is no trainer it can work out
+ Mar 04 06:27:11 <Dokujisan> I already know a handful of people who would be willing to do training
+ Mar 04 06:27:15 <div0> with cleverly designed maps for it :P
+ Mar 04 06:27:25 <div0> but, even if there is no trainer, there should be moderators
+ Mar 04 06:27:31 <Dokujisan> well that sounds more like the dojo concept
+ Mar 04 06:27:42 <Dokujisan> where the map is the training tool
+ Mar 04 06:27:42 <div0> and be it just to keep out the Diablo-D3s who join noob servers and then frag everyone there all the time :P
+ Mar 04 06:27:48 <div0> well
+ Mar 04 06:27:54 <div0> I hate putting the focus on obstacle course
+ Mar 04 06:27:57 <div0> THAT is totally boring to me
+ Mar 04 06:28:06 <Dokujisan> you should really see the map. hang on a sec
+ Mar 04 06:28:07 <div0> it should rather be actual gaemplay
+ Mar 04 06:28:21 <div0> it'd be the FIRST obstacle course map that is interesting
+ Mar 04 06:28:24 <Dokujisan> mookow even found a way to play VIDEOS that give an example
+ Mar 04 06:28:26 <Dokujisan> it's amazing
+ Mar 04 06:28:29 <div0> sure
+ Mar 04 06:28:33 <div0> but not for everyone
+ Mar 04 06:28:54 <div0> it's simply for another group of players
+ Mar 04 06:29:00 <div0> while the bootcamp idea should work for everyone
+ Mar 04 06:29:05 <div0> because it focuses on actually PLAYING the game
+ Mar 04 06:29:21 <div0> but yes, it requires a trainer
+ Mar 04 06:29:29 <div0> probably bootcamp server should only be up when a trainer is there
+ Mar 04 06:29:41 <div0> (if we put it on top of the server list, that is)
+ Mar 04 06:29:55 <Dokujisan> the way I did bootcamp before was I created an IRC channel where trainers would idle. Then I created a page with a webchat interface pointing to that channel. The webpage explained bootcamp and said "If you want to train, go into chat and request a trainer"
+ Mar 04 06:30:06 <div0> basically, I don't say the Dojo shouldn't be done...
+ Mar 04 06:30:09 <Dokujisan> and then if a trainer is available, both would go to the bootcamp server for a training session
+ Mar 04 06:30:11 <div0> of course not, it is a good idea
+ Mar 04 06:30:20 <div0> I just don't think it should be announced at the top of the server list all the time
+ Mar 04 06:30:27 <div0> as it may also drive newbies away
+ Mar 04 06:30:30 <div0> it sure would have driven away me
+ Mar 04 06:30:43 <Dokujisan> ok connect nullgaming.com:27005
+ Mar 04 06:30:48 <div0> can't, am at work
+ Mar 04 06:30:50 <Dokujisan> oh ok
+ Mar 04 06:31:02 <Dokujisan> basically, the dojo map has various rooms
+ Mar 04 06:31:03 <div0> basically, the whole obstacle course idea isn't really appealing to me
+ Mar 04 06:31:11 <Dokujisan> and each room has a focus....like movement, weapons, etc
+ Mar 04 06:31:18 <Dokujisan> and within each room, there are doors
+ Mar 04 06:31:28 <div0> well, I am not saying this would be a bad ides
+ Mar 04 06:31:30 <div0> a
+ Mar 04 06:31:31 <Dokujisan> and you enter a door and it walks you through how to do a certain thing....like laser jumping
+ Mar 04 06:31:34 <Dokujisan> wall lasering
+ Mar 04 06:31:39 <Dokujisan> rocket jumping
+ Mar 04 06:31:40 <Dokujisan> etc
+ Mar 04 06:31:45 <div0> as for bootcamp, is there a way to train multiple people at once?
+ Mar 04 06:32:07 <Dokujisan> and before you do the move, you can type "help" and that will start the download of the video. As soon as the video is downloaded, it plays on your screen so you see what you are suppoed to be doing
+ Mar 04 06:32:12 <div0> I'd prefer such a server where players can join and leave at any time
+ Mar 04 06:32:22 <Dokujisan> bootcamp, absolutely. I've trained up to 6 people at a time
+ Mar 04 06:32:33 <Dokujisan> well, actually I've trained more than that a long time ago before bootcamp was started
+ Mar 04 06:32:36 <div0> I just say... ideally it should be working WITHOUT having to go to a chat
+ Mar 04 06:32:44 <Dokujisan> but about 6 people works well
+ Mar 04 06:32:47 <div0> but by joining a public server
+ Mar 04 06:33:07 <Dokujisan> well I would love to see a mechanism for requesting a trainer IN the game. that would be awesome
+ Mar 04 06:33:17 <div0> you can do HTTP requests from QC
+ Mar 04 06:33:18 <Dokujisan> but using webchat was the best I could think of
+ Mar 04 06:33:58 <div0> so basically, you could make a HTTP request to a CGI script that will post the request on IRC
+ Mar 04 06:34:34 <Dokujisan> So what I did with bootcamp was I started to create a teaching plan, a curriculum, with various drills that the trainer would have the students walk through. The reason I started doing this was so I could quickly get a trainer onboard and all they would have to do is follow the curriculum
+ Mar 04 06:34:39 <div0> basically, I envision it this way...
+ Mar 04 06:34:44 <div0> noob joins training server...
+ Mar 04 06:34:52 <Dokujisan> and of course, they would help create the curriculum as well, help refine it, add more drills
+ Mar 04 06:34:54 <div0> and can spectate only
+ Mar 04 06:35:00 <div0> on some button, he can request a trainer
+ Mar 04 06:35:10 <div0> or request the already on the server trainer's attention
+ Mar 04 06:35:16 <div0> trainer can then let him in
+ Mar 04 06:35:36 <Dokujisan> can the trainer request be doing based on geography?
+ Mar 04 06:35:36 <div0> shouldn't be done too much like school though :P
+ Mar 04 06:35:46 <div0> based on geography, no
+ Mar 04 06:35:52 <Dokujisan> no, I ran it like martial arts training
+ Mar 04 06:35:55 <div0> but, we could have multiple training servers
+ Mar 04 06:36:01 <div0> the closer one would be at the top of the list
+ Mar 04 06:36:05 <div0> and be most likely to be joined
+ Mar 04 06:36:10 <Dokujisan> I explained some things, then we did some drills, then I stoped and explained some more and then we did some drills
+ Mar 04 06:36:26 <div0> sure
+ Mar 04 06:36:28 <Dokujisan> usually the sessions lasted about an hour, but sometimes they went for 3-4 hours
+ Mar 04 06:36:34 <div0> I just say... nobody should be "forced" to join at a certain time
+ Mar 04 06:36:40 <div0> and one should easily be able to skip a session too :P
+ Mar 04 06:36:54 <div0> it'd be better if players can just join the training when they feel like it
+ Mar 04 06:37:02 <div0> a curriculum can of course be used to decide what is the focus on what day
+ Mar 04 06:37:57 <Dokujisan> before bootcamp, we tried another approach and that was like running "classes" where we started a nexuiz school server publicly and we went to all of the public severs with people on them and announced "If you want nexuiz training, a class starts in 5 minutes. Go to here"
+ Mar 04 06:38:02 <Dokujisan> but that turned out to be a mess
+ Mar 04 06:38:18 <Dokujisan> we successfully collected a number of players...like as many as 15
+ Mar 04 06:38:23 <div0> well
+ Mar 04 06:38:25 <Dokujisan> and we certainly did train them in some basics
+ Mar 04 06:38:26 <div0> I want something in between
+ Mar 04 06:38:30 <Dokujisan> but it was very very very difficult to moderate
+ Mar 04 06:38:35 <Dokujisan> so that idea didn't work
+ Mar 04 06:38:36 <div0> server should be public, but trainer should decide who he lets in or not
+ Mar 04 06:38:42 <Dokujisan> that is why we came up with bootcamp
+ Mar 04 06:38:50 <div0> it shouldn't look like a closed community
+ Mar 04 06:38:59 <div0> it should be free, and one should be able to join it without commitment
+ Mar 04 06:39:17 <div0> but, moderation should then be done using a whitelist approach
+ Mar 04 06:39:25 <div0> i.e. anyone can join the server and try to talk to the trainer
+ Mar 04 06:39:30 <div0> but the trainer decides who gets to actually play
+ Mar 04 06:39:33 <Dokujisan> the teaching server (the first approach) was public and various people would join it and start shooting because they didn't know any better
+ Mar 04 06:39:40 <div0> EXACTLY :P
+ Mar 04 06:39:52 <div0> a trainer could e.g. let one player join, tell him what to do, and only then let the next one in
+ Mar 04 06:39:58 <div0> to avoid that mess
+ Mar 04 06:40:05 <Dokujisan> so yeah if there are mechanisms built into the game to help moderate the bootcamp server experience, that would be great
+ Mar 04 06:40:20 <div0> basically, I say: the bootcamp should be "really" public
+ Mar 04 06:40:29 <div0> a public server where anyone can join, with bootcamp specific restrictions
+ Mar 04 06:40:34 <Dokujisan> ok
+ Mar 04 06:40:39 <Dokujisan> that's awesome
+ Mar 04 06:40:39 <div0> and a feature to request a trainer when none is available
+ Mar 04 06:40:51 <div0> because: that will get our noobs to actually TRY the bootcamüp
+ Mar 04 06:40:58 <div0> as it'd be at the top of the server list
+ Mar 04 06:41:12 <Dokujisan> that would be a HUGE conversion tool
+ Mar 04 06:41:23 <div0> exactly
+ Mar 04 06:41:28 <Dokujisan> for turning new players into intermediate players quickly
+ Mar 04 06:41:45 <div0> things we need for it: a server should be "spectator only", and someone with master access can let players join the game
+ Mar 04 06:42:06 <div0> and, there should be a way to send a message to IRC (hehe, rcon2irc sort of can already do that, but this would better be more controlled)
+ Mar 04 06:42:11 <Dokujisan> I ran two bootcamp servers
+ Mar 04 06:42:49 <div0> BTW: the spectator-only feature also sounds like a good idea for clan matches
+ Mar 04 06:42:52 <Dokujisan> if a session was already started, someone could start a new session on the other server
+ Mar 04 06:44:52 <Dokujisan> the central user system idea would really help with clan activity as it would allow for a proper stats system and clan tag reservation and perhaps ....team slot reservation?? like for this clan match, only members of [o] can join team blue
+ Mar 04 06:45:38 <Dokujisan> that was a difficulty before with running clan matches where people would join and suddenly jump into the game during warmup and start playing and we'd have to tell them to spectate
+ Mar 04 06:46:00 <Dokujisan> and I had to kick some people and they would get mad because they didn't see my messages before
+ Mar 04 06:46:47 <Dokujisan> it was just a mess. But if we had a way to enforce rules during clan matches based on usernames or clan names, that would help a lot
+ Mar 04 06:47:20 <Dokujisan> then if someone on team blue dropped their connection, a spectator from that same clan could jump into the game (but the other spectators woudln't be allowed)
+ Mar 04 06:47:35 <Dokujisan> that was another difficulty with clan matches, dropped connections
+ Mar 04 06:47:51 <div0> right
+ Mar 04 06:47:58 <div0> I have described aw working user system
+ Mar 04 06:48:03 <div0> that ensures anonymity AND security :P
+ Mar 04 06:48:10 <Dokujisan> that's awesome!
+ Mar 04 06:48:10 <div0> could sure be used for nick and clan tags too
+ Mar 04 06:48:20 <Dokujisan> I wanna hug you
+ Mar 04 06:48:25 <div0> (of course, by associating a nick, you lose anonymity, but well, then you KNOW it :P)
+ Mar 04 06:48:34 <Dokujisan> right
+ Mar 04 06:48:48 <Dokujisan> so,,another thing that I've done is organize mapping projects
+ Mar 04 06:48:52 <div0> it can still be used to ban trolls, as the anonymous IDs would only be given once per week per email address
+ Mar 04 06:49:04 <Dokujisan> and that also involves mapping training too for those who want to learn
+ Mar 04 06:49:04 <div0> so if you lose your ID, in worst case you have to wait a week to get a new one
+ Mar 04 06:49:19 <div0> a really elaborate troll could of course request a new ID every week but do nothing
+ Mar 04 06:49:26 <div0> and then one year later, he can burn 52 IDs :P
+ Mar 04 06:49:34 <div0> but that is unlikely
+ Mar 04 06:49:39 <Dokujisan> I once created a team of people called NCT = Nexuiz Community Team to help me run some community projects (like organizing bootcamp, organizing clan matches, organizing mapping projects)
+ Mar 04 06:50:02 <Dokujisan> and since I basically gave up on the clan community, the NCT has only been focusing on the mapping projects
+ Mar 04 06:50:18 <Dokujisan> but we made some good progress
+ Mar 04 06:51:04 <Dokujisan> I think Nexuiz should have had an NCT-like group...which is just another way fo saying "you can volunteer to be involved in nexuiz" and then someone would direct and manage those people
+ Mar 04 06:51:17 <Dokujisan> I mean an NCT sort of group in an official sense
+ Mar 04 06:52:17 <Dokujisan> because it creates more mappers and it allows a lot of new projects to get off the ground quickly because we would already have a group of willing volunteers
+ Mar 04 06:52:37 <Dokujisan> it allows for map testing
+ Mar 04 06:52:46 <div0> speaking of maps... which maps do we want in "notnexuiz"?
+ Mar 04 06:52:50 <Dokujisan> good question
+ Mar 04 06:52:53 <div0> (out of the community maps)
+ Mar 04 06:53:19 <Dokujisan> I would think to start that off with "what maps do we NOT want that are currently in nexuiz" and then figure out how many open slots there are
+ Mar 04 06:53:29 <div0> not really :P
+ Mar 04 06:53:35 <div0> blockscape is e.g. a good candidate, I'd say
+ Mar 04 06:53:44 <div0> maybe needs a better compile though
+ Mar 04 06:53:57 <div0> controlfactor :P
+ Mar 04 06:54:01 <div0> (needs visual remake)
+ Mar 04 06:54:22 <div0> too bad we can't use docpython's maps
+ Mar 04 06:54:57 <Dokujisan> I discussed this with Getty with our other project. What is the major reason for having a lot of maps included with the game? I mean aside from those intended to be played in Campaign mode. It seems like 99% of gameplay happens on non-standard maps that get auto-downloaded to the player by the server.
+ Mar 04 06:55:13 <div0> the included maps represent the game
+ Mar 04 06:55:31 <div0> currently, what you play online is very different from what the game contains
+ Mar 04 06:55:34 <div0> that IMHO is not good
+ Mar 04 06:55:40 <Dokujisan> would we require these included maps to have bot waypoints?
+ Mar 04 06:55:59 <div0> yes
+ Mar 04 06:56:08 <Dokujisan> so someone could feasibly play CTF with some bots
+ Mar 04 06:56:09 <div0> and possibly use them in campaign too
+ Mar 04 06:56:14 <div0> right
+ Mar 04 06:56:16 <Dokujisan> ok
+ Mar 04 06:56:19 <div0> not very well
+ Mar 04 06:56:22 <div0> but they should work
+ Mar 04 06:56:29 <Dokujisan> since mangina improved the bots, they are actually playable in CTF now, I think
+ Mar 04 06:56:31 <div0> this BTW speaks against blockscape...
+ Mar 04 06:56:36 <Dokujisan> er mandinga*
+ Mar 04 06:56:36 <div0> IIRC it cannot be played without laserjumps
+ Mar 04 06:56:47 <Dokujisan> yeah :-/
+ Mar 04 06:56:56 <div0> controlfactor should work with bots
+ Mar 04 06:56:56 <Dokujisan> it would need some jumppads in certain places maybe?
+ Mar 04 06:56:58 <div0> but looks outdated
+ Mar 04 06:57:21 <div0> tznex03, same problem :P
+ Mar 04 06:57:35 <div0> tznex03 is the closest to classic Quake1/2 CTF we ever got
+ Mar 04 06:57:42 <Dokujisan> we couldn't include any of these q3 conversion maps, could we?
+ Mar 04 06:57:47 <div0> we can't
+ Mar 04 06:57:49 <Dokujisan> ok
+ Mar 04 06:57:49 <div0> and should not
+ Mar 04 06:58:24 <div0> hehe, that is already the full list of CTF maps I really would like to add - blockscape (but bots... can't), controlfactor, tznex03
+ Mar 04 06:58:37 <Dokujisan> many people seem to like gasolinepowered, and I'm sure the new version of it is going to be great
+ Mar 04 06:58:43 <div0> oh right
+ Mar 04 06:58:44 <Dokujisan> http://www.nullgaming.com/maps/hoctf/
+ Mar 04 06:58:46 <div0> that one too
+ Mar 04 06:58:51 <div0> I didn't see that one when scrolling :P
+ Mar 04 06:58:57 <div0> gasolinepowered is a clear yes
+ Mar 04 06:59:04 <Dokujisan> those are my CTF maps. Though I should remove the ones that I no longer have in the maplist
+ Mar 04 06:59:28 <div0> all your push are belong to us wtf :P
+ Mar 04 06:59:31 <Dokujisan> and hmm.... I should grab my maplist actually and remove the Q3 conversion maps
+ Mar 04 06:59:37 <Dokujisan> haha that is an april fools joke map
+ Mar 04 06:59:54 <div0> oh right, hydronex is not official either...#
+ Mar 04 07:00:01 <Dokujisan> OH btw.... marketing is another topic. I have a lot of marketing ideas and with some volunteers involved, that can be a good way to attract new players
+ Mar 04 07:00:08 <Dokujisan> like the april fools mapping project
+ Mar 04 07:00:14 <Dokujisan> which is around the corner....this is good timing
+ Mar 04 07:00:46 <Dokujisan> For example.... we would take existing maps and theme them to funny internet memes
+ Mar 04 07:00:49 <div0> lol, you once had bonuscheckers on it
+ Mar 04 07:00:56 <Dokujisan> yeah :-/
+ Mar 04 07:01:03 <Dokujisan> we did a remake of bonuscheckers though
+ Mar 04 07:01:08 <div0> a remake? where
+ Mar 04 07:01:13 <Dokujisan> it's called.....
+ Mar 04 07:01:19 <Dokujisan> courtyard_ctf
+ Mar 04 07:01:24 <Dokujisan> I think
+ Mar 04 07:01:31 <div0> ah, a serious remake :P
+ Mar 04 07:01:39 <div0> original was bonusarenactf, BTW :P
+ Mar 04 07:01:44 <div0> no, bonuscarousel
+ Mar 04 07:01:44 <Dokujisan> grassy has some ideas to improve it further, but the remake was basically successful
+ Mar 04 07:02:03 <Dokujisan> another succesful remake was darkcity_ctf
+ Mar 04 07:02:05 <div0> have screenshot?
+ Mar 04 07:02:08 <Dokujisan> hang on....
+ Mar 04 07:02:10 <div0> darkcity remade? cool
+ Mar 04 07:02:13 <div0> also with keyhunt support?
+ Mar 04 07:02:26 <Dokujisan> hmmm probably didn't include KH support
+ Mar 04 07:02:31 <div0> I like city maps
+ Mar 04 07:02:40 <div0> is it a from scratch remake?
+ Mar 04 07:02:58 <div0> or based on the old one?+
+ Mar 04 07:03:04 <Dokujisan> did you know that mIKEctf2's real name was "Like Spinning Plates"?
+ Mar 04 07:03:08 <div0> yes
+ Mar 04 07:03:31 <Dokujisan> oh, mookow's recent map called Kings and Queens is really really good, but has a FPS drop problem
+ Mar 04 07:03:33 <div0> ah, darkcityctf seems to be based on the roiginal one
+ Mar 04 07:03:44 <div0> bad... cannot use that then for the official game :P
+ Mar 04 07:03:52 <Dokujisan> if the FPS drop could be improved, that could be a good map
+ Mar 04 07:03:54 <div0> (as the original sure is not GPL compatible)
+ Mar 04 07:04:07 <div0> but I would really like a nicely detailed city map for keyhunt
+ Mar 04 07:04:14 <Dokujisan> well he did recreate the whole map from scratch at one point because the brushes were so messed up
+ Mar 04 07:04:19 <Dokujisan> for darkcity_ctf
+ Mar 04 07:04:26 <div0> yes, but he still uses the old textures
+ Mar 04 07:04:29 <Dokujisan> ah I see
+ Mar 04 07:04:39 <div0> if these could get replaced, that'd be great
+ Mar 04 07:05:00 <Dokujisan> I think agressor_ctf could be good but it needs some fixing around the middle point area where the quad is. That's too much of a bottleneck
+ Mar 04 07:05:25 <div0> also... which maps could be warpzonized?
+ Mar 04 07:05:32 <div0> aggressor probbaly cannot
+ Mar 04 07:05:41 <div0> using warpzones there would turn it into a brain twister :P=
+ Mar 04 07:05:42 <Dokujisan> grassy recently recreated onarail to included 2 trains...it's called on2rails. It's an okay map...it's better than the original
+ Mar 04 07:05:56 <div0> need to make stoiber remix of it :P
+ Mar 04 07:05:59 <Dokujisan> oh, warpzones. Man, those are great
+ Mar 04 07:06:06 <Dokujisan> what an awesome idea
+ Mar 04 07:06:20 <Dokujisan> I haven't even begun to think about how those could be used for gameplay
+ Mar 04 07:06:24 <div0> best are used in a way that is compatible to clients that have the extra renders disabled
+ Mar 04 07:06:28 <Dokujisan> like your spiral staircase concept
+ Mar 04 07:06:36 <div0> like, put teleporter brush behind them :P
+ Mar 04 07:06:41 <Dokujisan> I see
+ Mar 04 07:07:06 <Dokujisan> a lot of dublpaws maps are popular on my server
+ Mar 04 07:07:08 <Dokujisan> dance
+ Mar 04 07:07:09 <Dokujisan> go
+ Mar 04 07:07:13 <div0> yes, but these are quite low quality
+ Mar 04 07:07:14 <Dokujisan> fighter_bay
+ Mar 04 07:07:18 <div0> (for inclusion in the game)
+ Mar 04 07:07:27 <div0> good gameplay though
+ Mar 04 07:07:29 <Dokujisan> low quality in terms of textures?
+ Mar 04 07:07:34 <div0> yes, and brush detail
+ Mar 04 07:07:36 <Dokujisan> because I could talk with dublpaws about improving those
+ Mar 04 07:07:45 <Dokujisan> he plays on my server all the time
+ Mar 04 07:07:55 <div0> dance is almost includable though
+ Mar 04 07:08:06 <div0> the other dublpaws maps, not really
+ Mar 04 07:08:10 <Dokujisan> dib and I were working on an dance_enclosed spin-off
+ Mar 04 07:08:23 <Dokujisan> it was about 90% done and then he dropped it
+ Mar 04 07:08:28 <div0> dance is just too one-colored :P
+ Mar 04 07:08:39 <div0> do something better than that wood floor, and it's done
+ Mar 04 07:08:40 <Dokujisan> I happen to like the latest versions of soylent_ctf that makr was working on
+ Mar 04 07:08:55 <Dokujisan> though it needs more testing
+ Mar 04 07:09:04 <Dokujisan> oh....stonecastle
+ Mar 04 07:09:08 <Dokujisan> remake of dm_castle
+ Mar 04 07:09:11 <Dokujisan> everyone loves it
+ Mar 04 07:09:18 <Dokujisan> well except for cortez666 :-P
+ Mar 04 07:09:50 <Dokujisan> I think lavaflag could use a makeover
+ Mar 04 07:09:51 <div0> given that dm_castle was bad
+ Mar 04 07:09:54 <div0> I have to try this one
+ Mar 04 07:09:59 <div0> lavaflag REALLY :P
+ Mar 04 07:10:06 <div0> isn't that the one with the huge bug?
+ Mar 04 07:10:08 <div0> hourglass too
+ Mar 04 07:10:31 <div0> (where you could end up in all black rooms, and hide)
+ Mar 04 07:11:03 <Dokujisan> the gameplay of dm_castle is improved in stonecastle with jumppads in certain places (really helps new players move around the map) and we replaced the machinegun with hagar
+ Mar 04 07:11:22 * Taoki (kvirc@93.113.162.42) has joined #notnexuiz
+ Mar 04 07:11:31 <Dokujisan> oh I didn't know about any lavaflag bug :-o
+ Mar 04 07:11:46 <Dokujisan> I like medeivalV2
+ Mar 04 07:11:50 <Dokujisan> but it also needs a makeover
+ Mar 04 07:12:21 <div0> IIRC lavaflag has the sae bug as hourglass, but elsewhere
+ Mar 04 07:12:59 <Dokujisan> ctf_toxic was on our list of maps to improve...mainly in the middle area of the map where the two halves meet
+ Mar 04 07:13:55 <div0> my version? sure
+ Mar 04 07:14:03 <div0> or master's version? :P
+ Mar 04 07:14:11 <Dokujisan> a recent map called Cubical by a new mapper (guy who came from Q2/Q3) is really good. That same guy is working on a Walmart map called NexMart
+ Mar 04 07:14:16 <div0> my version is the one with the "reaction" stuff
+ Mar 04 07:14:30 <div0> oh, but Cubical is by FruitieX
+ Mar 04 07:14:34 <div0> from that mapping contest
+ Mar 04 07:14:37 <Dokujisan> Cubical doesn't look very pretty though.
+ Mar 04 07:14:43 <Dokujisan> oh he also has a map called cubical??
+ Mar 04 07:14:44 <Dokujisan> oops!
+ Mar 04 07:14:55 <Dokujisan> uh, ok I need to talk with mintox about renaming his then
+ Mar 04 07:15:03 <div0> not sure if this is needed :P
+ Mar 04 07:15:08 <div0> not many play FruitieX's map anyway
+ Mar 04 07:15:14 <div0> actually, it may be mostly forgotten nwo
+ Mar 04 07:15:28 <div0> basically, if the map is good, FruitieX will probably be fine with itr
+ Mar 04 07:15:49 <div0> just talk about it to both of them and find a solution
+ Mar 04 07:15:56 <div0> chances are BTW that the bsp file names do not clash
+ Mar 04 07:16:20 <Dokujisan> Mookow's "Drainage" map had promise, but he never really finished it.
+ Mar 04 07:17:25 <Dokujisan> Evilspace CTF is popular, but it does have a couple bad gameplay elements. There is a hidden teleporter that leads to the quad and there is that "escape hatch" jump pad right below the flag
+ Mar 04 07:17:57 <div0> yes
+ Mar 04 07:18:00 <Dokujisan> if those things were fixed and if it had a makeover, it could be good.
+ Mar 04 07:18:02 <div0> maybe should be fixed
+ Mar 04 07:18:25 <div0> I do like the idea of the teleporter though, but not of hiding it
+ Mar 04 07:18:37 <Dokujisan> right
+ Mar 04 07:18:47 <Dokujisan> hidden secret stuff in CTF is generally bad for gameplay
+ Mar 04 07:18:56 <Dokujisan> but a teleporter leading to the quad is fine
+ Mar 04 07:19:28 <div0> right
+ Mar 04 07:19:30 <Dokujisan> everyone really likes gforce2. It could still use some refinement. unfortunately cortez took Gforce3 and 4 in a different direction
+ Mar 04 07:19:37 <div0> no, I don't like gforce2 :P
+ Mar 04 07:19:45 <div0> oh wait
+ Mar 04 07:19:48 <div0> version 2, maybe yes
+ Mar 04 07:19:57 <Taoki> Morning everyone :)
+ Mar 04 07:19:57 <div0> but the turrets ended up too annoying
+ Mar 04 07:19:59 <Dokujisan> unfortunately, gforce2 also has that hidden teleporter leaidng to the nex
+ Mar 04 07:20:07 <div0> yes
+ Mar 04 07:20:12 <Dokujisan> yeah the turrets were added in v3
+ Mar 04 07:20:24 <Dokujisan> they were "neat" but they ruined the map
+ Mar 04 07:20:53 <Dokujisan> it's interesting to me that cortez creates interesting maps by accident
+ Mar 04 07:21:28 <div0> and here comes a really controversial question...
+ Mar 04 07:21:38 <Dokujisan> one of the projects was another attempt at remaking dusty to be symmetrical.
+ Mar 04 07:21:41 <div0> does anyone volunteer to do good item placement for slimepipe (NOT the ctf version)?
+ Mar 04 07:21:49 <Dokujisan> slimepipe was on the list too!
+ Mar 04 07:22:00 <Dokujisan> out of all of mikee's maps, slimepipe was the one that I felt had potential
+ Mar 04 07:22:01 <div0> the only good looking mikeeusa map
+ Mar 04 07:22:29 <div0> even has somewhat okay gameplay
+ Mar 04 07:22:33 <div0> just item placement is bad
+ Mar 04 07:22:41 <div0> and the slime trap... not that way, but has potential
+ Mar 04 07:22:44 <Dokujisan> this hasn't been updated in a month, but here is the projects page we were working from
+ Mar 04 07:22:45 <Dokujisan> http://www.nullgaming.com/nexuiz/projects/maps/
+ Mar 04 07:22:49 <Dokujisan> to fix maps and convert maps
+ Mar 04 07:23:11 <div0> basically, slimepipe probably does not need much work to be includable
+ Mar 04 07:23:25 <div0> of course, mikee later developed it into the wrong direction
+ Mar 04 07:23:40 <div0> by making 4 copies of the map, and confusing corridors
+ Mar 04 07:23:50 <div0> when remaking, watch the license
+ Mar 04 07:23:54 <div0> doc's maps are not GPL
+ Mar 04 07:24:43 <div0> Rustvents - also good idea
+ Mar 04 07:25:39 <div0> for slimepipe, please base on slimepipesmallctf, or even better, slimepipe (not ctf)
+ Mar 04 07:25:54 <Dokujisan> k
+ Mar 04 07:28:20 <Dokujisan> breathium is pretty for a DM map
+ Mar 04 07:28:27 <Dokujisan> I forgot who made it
+ Mar 04 07:28:31 <div0> oh, great, nexdmlc2 got edited
+ Mar 04 07:28:35 <div0> I liked that map
+ Mar 04 07:28:49 <div0> too bad it's nongpl too, it really would have potential
+ Mar 04 07:28:58 <Dokujisan> ahh
+ Mar 04 07:29:01 <div0> maybe original author can be tracked down
+ Mar 04 07:29:11 <div0> or was it rebuilt anyway?
+ Mar 04 07:29:21 <Dokujisan> probably not
+ Mar 04 07:29:35 <div0> because, IIRC it came without .map file
+ Mar 04 07:29:35 <Dokujisan> it was scorpion's first map
+ Mar 04 07:29:43 <Dokujisan> oh? hmmm
+ Mar 04 07:29:59 <div0> oh, no
+ Mar 04 07:30:01 <div0> map was included
+ Mar 04 07:32:05 <div0> basically, many maps in the list have potential, but not many are GPL (or GPL-able)
+ Mar 04 07:32:23 <div0> the others can of course be played on servers anyway
+ Mar 04 07:32:49 <Dokujisan> yeah we certainly weren't tracking licenses. However, we could adjust that for the goal of maps to be included with the game
+ Mar 04 07:33:26 <div0> I just am saying - many of these WOULD have potential for inclusion
+ Mar 04 07:33:28 <Dokujisan> but yeah, this map-project management is another thing that I think should be an official effort put forth by the people who run the game
+ Mar 04 07:33:34 <Dokujisan> because then it could be done better
+ Mar 04 07:33:37 <Dokujisan> and reach more people
+ Mar 04 07:33:52 <div0> and yes, I wouldn't even refuse to include a slimepipe fixed version
+ Mar 04 07:33:53 <Dokujisan> the little effort I've done has created a handful of new mappers
+ Mar 04 07:34:18 <div0> at least the DM version
+ Mar 04 07:34:19 <Dokujisan> ...and I don't even make maps! I tried before but gtkradient kept crashing in vista
+ Mar 04 07:34:22 <div0> I am not sure if it can work out as CTF
+ Mar 04 07:34:28 <Dokujisan> I haven't had time to try netradient since
+ Mar 04 07:34:58 <div0> seriously, I'd say slimepipe could become what reslimed has attempted to be but failed
+ Mar 04 07:35:05 <div0> (I still prefer slimepit over reslimed)
+ Mar 04 07:35:16 <Dokujisan> is it slimepit or slimepipe?
+ Mar 04 07:35:22 <div0> mikee's is slimepipe
+ Mar 04 07:35:32 <div0> I now compare to slimepit (the old one in Nexuiz)
+ Mar 04 07:35:37 <Dokujisan> oooooh
+ Mar 04 07:35:51 <div0> reslimed, Strahlemann's successor, does look better than slimepit, but I always hit walls on it
+ Mar 04 07:35:54 <div0> really not fluent
+ Mar 04 07:36:02 <div0> I'd like a "best of both worlds" map :P
+ Mar 04 07:36:28 <Dokujisan> I liked reslimed, mainly because it is larger
+ Mar 04 07:36:45 <div0> yes
+ Mar 04 07:36:47 <div0> that part I like
+ Mar 04 07:36:53 <div0> but not that it lost of slimepit's fluency
+ Mar 04 07:37:02 <Dokujisan> but I always though the shield area down that long hallway was a bit odd
+ Mar 04 07:37:09 <div0> on slimepit I can jump all the time, and never get stuck anywhere
+ Mar 04 07:37:18 <div0> on reslimed, no chance
+ Mar 04 07:45:14 <Dokujisan> if there is any chance of my being put in charge of community development, I'll certainly "sign-up" for that. That is what I've always done for nexuiz and if I can do it on an official basis with the support of those involved in running the game, then these projects can be scaled up to something much bigger.
+ Mar 04 07:45:51 <Dokujisan> that is what I'm planning on doing for the projects I'm working on with Getty
+ Mar 04 07:46:08 <Dokujisan> I'm the community developer or community coordinator for those projects
+ Mar 04 07:52:34 <div0> Nexitus
+ Mar 04 07:52:51 <div0> is that available?
+ Mar 04 07:53:00 <div0> maybe with z at end
+ Mar 04 07:55:01 <Dokujisan> nexitus.com - taken
+ Mar 04 07:56:40 <Dokujisan> nexituz.com available, but that doesn't look as good
+ Mar 04 07:57:06 <Dokujisan> nexidus.com also taken
+ Mar 04 07:57:24 <Dokujisan> nexid.com taken
+ Mar 04 07:58:27 <div0> damn
+ Mar 04 07:59:17 <Dokujisan> another thing, I helped the aussies build up their community and I was planning on starting up a south american community and possibly an asian community at one point
+ Mar 04 07:59:58 <Dokujisan> I talked with mandinga about the south american community idea
+ Mar 04 08:01:30 <Dokujisan> nexidux.com available
+ Mar 04 08:01:55 <Dokujisan> nexidun.com available
+ Mar 04 08:02:31 <Dokujisan> nexidium.com available
+ Mar 04 08:04:03 <Dokujisan> nexiox.com available
+ Mar 04 08:10:18 <div0> nexidium - not so bad
+ Mar 04 08:11:36 <Dokujisan> nexilus.com available
+ Mar 04 08:14:35 <div0> sounds too soft :P
+ Mar 04 08:14:46 <Dokujisan> ya
+ Mar 04 08:15:13 <div0> also, if it differs just by one letter from a traemark, we can get screwed too
+ Mar 04 08:15:34 <Dokujisan> only of that trademark is in the gaming industry
+ Mar 04 08:15:43 <div0> true
+ Mar 04 08:15:48 <div0> maybe in software too
+ Mar 04 08:15:52 <Dokujisan> ya
+ Mar 04 08:15:54 <div0> NEXCARNATE
+ Mar 04 08:16:35 <Dokujisan> nexiton.com available
+ Mar 04 08:16:42 <div0> hm... that could work
+ Mar 04 08:16:51 <div0> the gun could then also be called "The Nexiton"
+ Mar 04 08:16:55 <div0> or maybe Nexitone
+ Mar 04 08:17:05 <Dokujisan> tone your skin with....nexitone!
+ Mar 04 08:17:09 <div0> lol
+ Mar 04 08:17:15 <div0> Nexecution
+ Mar 04 08:17:19 <div0> no, that is too violent :P
+ Mar 04 08:17:31 <div0> Nexcathedra ahahahahah))
+ Mar 04 08:17:57 <div0> NEXHALE
+ Mar 04 08:18:18 <div0> Nexotherm
+ Mar 04 08:18:27 <div0> Nexodium
+ Mar 04 08:18:38 <Dokujisan> nexot.com is available
+ Mar 04 08:18:41 <div0> Nexodus
+ Mar 04 08:18:48 <[-z-]> http://nexuizgpl.com/ << run by bennydacks
+ Mar 04 08:18:59 <div0> Nexogamy - don't even want to know what that would be
+ Mar 04 08:19:08 <Dokujisan> heh, he snatched that domain up quick eh?
+ Mar 04 08:19:36 <Dokujisan> I want to like bennydacks, I really do
+ Mar 04 08:19:53 <div0> Nexotoxic
+ Mar 04 08:20:58 <[-z-]> :-P
+ Mar 04 08:21:37 <Dokujisan> so whenever we pick a name, we need to NOT release it until we make sure we get the appropriate domains that we think we might need
+ Mar 04 08:21:40 <div0> Nextima (but not sure if that is a bad word, just found extima in /usr/share/dict/words)
+ Mar 04 08:21:43 <div0> of course
+ Mar 04 08:22:04 <div0> Nextispex
+ Mar 04 08:22:06 <div0> wtf :P
+ Mar 04 08:23:07 <Dokujisan> and it would be wonderful if all of the things offered by side websites were actually part of the official site
+ Mar 04 08:23:44 <Dokujisan> like news, training videos, etc
+ Mar 04 08:23:55 <div0> that is fine, would even allow me to also accept NN as a part of the official side :P
+ Mar 04 08:23:56 <Dokujisan> clan management
+ Mar 04 08:24:01 <div0> it just shouldn't be centric to a single community
+ Mar 04 08:24:22 <div0> but [PB] will stay elsewhere
+ Mar 04 08:24:28 <div0> don't want to get forced to use good web design ;)
+ Mar 04 08:24:35 <Dokujisan> haha
+ Mar 04 08:24:51 <div0> but sure - why NOT integrate the various communities
+ Mar 04 08:25:35 <[-z-]> yes, I don't mind building out this new site to act like nexuiz ninjaz was planning to be like
+ Mar 04 08:25:41 <Dokujisan> exactly
+ Mar 04 08:25:44 <Dokujisan> that's what I mean
+ Mar 04 08:25:58 <[-z-]> I already thought about how to integrate a few host and I'm working on builid a map repo into wordpress
+ Mar 04 08:26:06 <[-z-]> I created my first WP plugin yesterday ^_^
+ Mar 04 08:26:14 <Dokujisan> this will give me an excuse to learn wordpress
+ Mar 04 08:26:20 <Dokujisan> I've been avoiding it :-P
+ Mar 04 08:26:27 <[-z-]> it's really a nice CMS
+ Mar 04 08:28:55 <[-z-]> god damn, can't wait until the weekend, I need sleep
+ Mar 04 08:29:03 <div0> I just don't want the ninjaz to dominate it :P
+ Mar 04 08:29:10 <div0> but well, that shouldn't be hard to achieve
+ Mar 04 08:29:16 <[-z-]> I understand and agree
+ Mar 04 08:29:16 <div0> just add enough non-NN content and it's set
+ Mar 04 08:29:31 <div0> a comprehensive portal page WOULD be good
+ Mar 04 08:29:50 <div0> it's just, the different interest group all have different opinions...
+ Mar 04 08:29:54 <[-z-]> part of the reasons ninjaz were started was because I thought it was too hard to get AT to listen on some things
+ Mar 04 08:30:00 <div0> but the main page should have a neutral point of view whereever possible
+ Mar 04 08:30:13 <Dokujisan> IMO, there wouldn't have been a "nexuizninjaz" if there were something like it within the core community.
+ Mar 04 08:30:24 <div0> and how can you be more neutral than by trying to include as many of these special comminities as possible
+ Mar 04 08:30:24 <[-z-]> well put
+ Mar 04 08:30:54 <div0> should probably also include planetnexuiz.de if it still exists :P
+ Mar 04 08:33:46 <Dokujisan> I'm also scanning domain auctions and sales sites because often domains are for sale really cheap...like $15
+ Mar 04 08:33:53 <[-z-]> it's a trap
+ Mar 04 08:33:58 <Dokujisan> ?
+ Mar 04 08:34:06 <[-z-]> don't by from squatters
+ Mar 04 08:34:17 <Dokujisan> who says they are squatters?
+ Mar 04 08:34:33 <[-z-]> 90% chance
+ Mar 04 08:35:05 <[-z-]> where you chance sedo or something?
+ Mar 04 08:35:22 <Dokujisan> ok I just scanned godaddy auctions for nex*.com
+ Mar 04 08:35:25 <Dokujisan> didn't find much
+ Mar 04 08:35:28 <[-z-]> ahh
+ Mar 04 08:35:53 <Dokujisan> a lot of those godaddy auctions are expired domains that people let lapse
+ Mar 04 08:37:43 <div0> I do think the name SHOULD still start with nex
+ Mar 04 08:37:46 <[-z-]> yeah, godaddy isn't the same as the other sites... but their own brand of evil
+ Mar 04 08:37:51 <div0> but it isn't really easy to find a good name with that
+ Mar 04 08:38:02 <Dokujisan> it would be really convenient if it began with "nex"
+ Mar 04 08:38:07 <[-z-]> nexican
+ Mar 04 08:38:08 <[-z-]> ^_^
+ Mar 04 08:38:11 <Dokujisan> haha
+ Mar 04 08:38:13 <div0> Nexotherm only has 2 google hits
+ Mar 04 08:38:16 <div0> it may work :P
+ Mar 04 08:38:17 <[-z-]> nexicola
+ Mar 04 08:38:26 <div0> plus, the word makes sense - explosions are exotherm reactions
+ Mar 04 08:38:31 <[-z-]> nexifz
+ Mar 04 08:38:43 * [-z-] gives channel operator status to Taoki
+ Mar 04 08:38:45 <Dokujisan> here is my list so far...
+ Mar 04 08:38:46 <Dokujisan> http://pastie.org/private/rwg7zyl2a9gwfcdplmqvqa
+ Mar 04 08:39:15 <Dokujisan> I see some repeats
+ Mar 04 08:39:15 <div0> Try: Nexepharis
+ Mar 04 08:39:16 <Dokujisan> oh well
+ Mar 04 08:39:25 <Dokujisan> that's kind of a long name
+ Mar 04 08:39:33 <Dokujisan> I was trying for 8 characters or less
+ Mar 04 08:39:33 <div0> yes, but less weird than Xepharis
+ Mar 04 08:39:59 <div0> Nexiox is not that bad either
+ Mar 04 08:40:00 <Dokujisan> nexepharis.com available
+ Mar 04 08:40:12 <[-z-]> nexephalis
+ Mar 04 08:40:19 <div0> nexenzephalitis?
+ Mar 04 08:40:31 <[-z-]> the logo could be the radar for bleach
+ Mar 04 08:40:32 <Dokujisan> nexameaneggsandwich
+ Mar 04 08:40:37 <div0> that is what your brain gets when you get nexed too much
+ Mar 04 08:40:42 <[-z-]> eabfps
+ Mar 04 08:40:48 <[-z-]> (eggs and bacon FPS)
+ Mar 04 08:40:53 <div0> lol
+ Mar 04 08:40:58 <div0> NEGGS AND BACON
+ Mar 04 08:41:03 <[-z-]> :-P
+ Mar 04 08:41:15 <[-z-]> we can call it nexnex
+ Mar 04 08:41:31 <[-z-]> nexnex.org AVAILABLE
+ Mar 04 08:41:44 <Dokujisan> I really like some of those names that don't have available .coms....so if we get stuck with this name picking thing, we can always consider that as a backup plan
+ Mar 04 08:41:47 <[-z-]> nextnex
+ Mar 04 08:42:08 <[-z-]> nextnex.com AVAILABLE
+ Mar 04 08:45:56 <Dokujisan> I need food...brb
+ Mar 04 09:05:14 <[-z-]> alright, see you all from the work place
+ Mar 04 09:34:41 * }-z-{ (z@dojo.nexuizninjaz.com) has joined #notnexuiz
+ Mar 04 09:35:03 <Dokujisan> ok there are some more isuses we need to work out with this transition. We are going to have to recreate a lot of things that exist for nexuiz already...like dev.alientrap.org content and some of the sticky thread information
+ Mar 04 09:35:20 <}-z-{> yeah, I can handle all the web and I'll share access with you Dokujisan
+ Mar 04 09:35:24 <div0> yes, but that doesn't have to be there from the start
+ Mar 04 09:35:28 <Dokujisan> ok
+ Mar 04 09:35:34 <div0> plus, [-z-] has access to alientrap.org's databases :P
+ Mar 04 09:35:37 <}-z-{> well, getting the web and pm up will help us get organized
+ Mar 04 09:35:38 <Dokujisan> haha
+ Mar 04 09:35:53 <div0> but we can't get it up without a domain name
+ Mar 04 09:36:00 <}-z-{> I was hoping we could come up with a name by the end of today
+ Mar 04 09:36:05 <div0> well... for a start, it'd be nice if it's on nexiuz.org as you now own it anyway :P
+ Mar 04 09:36:12 <}-z-{> but if not, I can just start building on locally
+ Mar 04 09:36:24 <}-z-{> yeah, I'll do that when I get home I guess
+ Mar 04 09:36:27 <div0> it isn't easy to find a good name
+ Mar 04 09:36:28 <}-z-{> start it on nexiuz.org
+ Mar 04 09:36:35 <div0> but we can use nexiuz as "working title", and get a real name later
+ Mar 04 09:36:42 <}-z-{> yeah
+ Mar 04 09:36:54 <div0> just... http://www.nexiuz.org shouldn't contain much info for anyone :P
+ Mar 04 09:37:00 <div0> more like the illfonic announcement was haha :P
+ Mar 04 09:37:04 <div0> it should be in a subdir
+ Mar 04 09:37:11 <}-z-{> what do you mean?
+ Mar 04 09:37:18 <div0> alternatively, it shouldn CLEARLY state EVERYWHERE that nexiuz is unlikely to be the final name
+ Mar 04 09:37:26 <}-z-{> ahh
+ Mar 04 09:37:29 <div0> as using that as final name will be a bad move
+ Mar 04 09:37:41 <div0> (as google will STILL show illfonic's stuff, and assume it's a typo of nexuiz)
+ Mar 04 09:38:23 <Dokujisan> yeah I agree that nexiuz would be a bad choice
+ Mar 04 09:39:44 <div0> nexidium is out
+ Mar 04 09:39:48 <div0> Domains Registered on 2007-07-28_2_77 psroom.com - [ Diese Seite übersetzen ]
+ Mar 04 09:39:49 <div0> nexidium.com
+ Mar 04 09:40:02 <}-z-{> sounds like medicine that makes you fall asleep anyway
+ Mar 04 09:40:05 <div0> even though the domain currently does not exist, it once did
+ Mar 04 09:40:07 <div0> that too
+ Mar 04 09:41:04 <div0> Nuper erat Nexicus nunc est vispillo XSAXius.
+ Mar 04 09:41:12 <div0> Quod vispillo facit, fecerat ed Nexicus.
+ Mar 04 09:41:27 <div0> *et
+ Mar 04 09:41:47 <}-z-{> nexivouz
+ Mar 04 09:41:53 <}-z-{> is that too complicated?
+ Mar 04 09:41:54 <div0> NO PLEASE NOT
+ Mar 04 09:41:56 <}-z-{> haha
+ Mar 04 09:42:04 <}-z-{> nexivu?
+ Mar 04 09:42:12 <}-z-{> like deja vu with nexuiz
+ Mar 04 09:42:12 <div0> also, you meant nexez-vous
+ Mar 04 09:43:32 <}-z-{> nexivu.com AVAILABLE
+ Mar 04 09:43:56 <div0> and just has 10 google hits
+ Mar 04 09:43:58 <div0> seems usable
+ Mar 04 09:44:10 <div0> but... don't like it much
+ Mar 04 09:44:13 <div0> still put it on the list
+ Mar 04 09:44:18 <}-z-{> nexi.us AVAILABLE
+ Mar 04 09:44:18 <Dokujisan> added
+ Mar 04 09:44:19 <}-z-{> :-P
+ Mar 04 09:44:26 <div0> also, hard to pronounce
+ Mar 04 09:44:30 <div0> "Nexi vü"
+ Mar 04 09:44:45 <}-z-{> nexii? (like nex 2)
+ Mar 04 09:45:06 <}-z-{> damn, nexit is taken
+ Mar 04 09:45:06 <div0> like the plural of nexius, nexii m.?
+ Mar 04 09:45:28 <div0> (nexii would be nexius's plural in latin grammar)#
+ Mar 04 09:45:32 <}-z-{> :-P
+ Mar 04 09:45:47 <div0> actually... good one
+ Mar 04 09:45:51 <div0> plural form indicates teamplay focus
+ Mar 04 09:46:21 <}-z-{> ironic because we drop the 'us'
+ Mar 04 09:46:31 <div0> HAHA :P
+ Mar 04 09:46:35 <Dokujisan> haha
+ Mar 04 09:47:11 <Dokujisan> nexolus.com is available
+ Mar 04 09:47:27 <}-z-{> sounds complicated
+ Mar 04 09:51:51 <Dokujisan> nexvium.com is available
+ Mar 04 09:52:49 <}-z-{> too hard
+ Mar 04 09:55:15 <div0> nexvium?
+ Mar 04 09:55:16 <Dokujisan> nexona.com available
+ Mar 04 09:55:17 <div0> like valium`?
+ Mar 04 09:55:26 <div0> could write email spam about it :P
+ Mar 04 09:56:36 <Dokujisan> nexori.com available
+ Mar 04 09:57:01 <Dokujisan> nexoric.com available
+ Mar 04 09:57:20 <Dokujisan> nexorin.com available
+ Mar 04 09:57:41 <Dokujisan> nexorn.com available
+ Mar 04 09:58:12 <Dokujisan> nexolic.com available
+ Mar 04 09:59:38 <Dokujisan> nexole.com available
+ Mar 04 10:00:19 <Dokujisan> nexolum.com available
+ Mar 04 10:00:48 <Dokujisan> nexolix.com available
+ Mar 04 10:01:26 <Dokujisan> nexoic.com available
+ Mar 04 10:04:51 <Dokujisan> nexodo.com is not available, but I made a type and noxodo.com is available
+ Mar 04 10:05:49 <Dokujisan> nexorid.com available
+ Mar 04 10:06:14 <div0> nexolix lol
+ Mar 04 10:06:18 <div0> Nex...Oh I see!
+ Mar 04 10:07:04 <Dokujisan> would we consider numbers in the name?
+ Mar 04 10:07:29 <div0> if not too silly, yes
+ Mar 04 10:07:30 <Dokujisan> I don't know what signifigance a number ight have
+ Mar 04 10:07:34 <div0> n3xu1z = silly
+ Mar 04 10:07:56 <div0> nex2go - why not
+ Mar 04 10:14:53 <}-z-{> nex4.us AVAILABLE
+ Mar 04 10:16:08 <}-z-{> zenuis
+ Mar 04 10:16:11 <div0> hm... maybe, not sure
+ Mar 04 10:16:13 <}-z-{> zen u is :-P
+ Mar 04 10:18:50 <Dokujisan> my updated lsit...alphabetized
+ Mar 04 10:18:52 <Dokujisan> http://pastie.org/private/ocjjrj0175nvbbnqycqna
+ Mar 04 10:18:53 <div0> I'd prefer to keep religion out of it :P
+ Mar 04 10:19:33 <Dokujisan> oh... add nexodic.com to the available list
+ Mar 04 10:20:10 <div0> nexodiac
+ Mar 04 10:20:13 <div0> whatever that is
+ Mar 04 10:20:15 <div0> nexomaniac
+ Mar 04 10:20:27 <div0> nexiax
+ Mar 04 10:20:46 <div0> (or nexiacs)
+ Mar 04 10:20:52 <div0> necsiax please not, though
+ Mar 04 10:21:23 <div0> can I invite morphed here btw?
+ Mar 04 10:21:29 <Dokujisan> ok so I would suggest a plan A, B and C... Plan A is to aim for nex????.com, Plan B is to consider a nex???.org that doesn't have an available .com...and Plan C is to consider something not beginning with nex????
+ Mar 04 10:21:33 <}-z-{> yes, you can
+ Mar 04 10:21:58 <}-z-{> and other developers / forces within the community who'd like to help out
+ Mar 04 10:22:06 <div0> Dokujisan: I'd prefer plan AB
+ Mar 04 10:22:06 * morphed (~morphed@095160110118.warszawa.vectranet.pl) has joined #notnexuiz
+ Mar 04 10:22:10 <morphed> hi
+ Mar 04 10:22:19 <div0> i.e. both .com and .org should be available if possible
+ Mar 04 10:22:29 <div0> also, google should find less than 100 hits for the name :P
+ Mar 04 10:22:30 <Dokujisan> right now, Plan A isn't turning out too well. Plan B might have some good names in that "taken" list for .coms.... Plan C is wide open
+ Mar 04 10:22:47 <div0> nex does not have to be at the beginning
+ Mar 04 10:22:50 <morphed> what are the plans ?
+ Mar 04 10:23:06 <div0> connexius
+ Mar 04 10:23:12 <Dokujisan> If I were doing this on my own, I would go with Plan C, but I understand the desire to stick with the "nex" prefix
+ Mar 04 10:23:21 <div0> well, let's say
+ Mar 04 10:23:26 <div0> I don't want to rule out C
+ Mar 04 10:23:31 <div0> if you have a really good nex-free name, go ahead :P
+ Mar 04 10:23:36 <div0> we shouldn't be too fixated on it
+ Mar 04 10:23:51 <morphed> open game developers OGD
+ Mar 04 10:23:51 <div0> but dellum, modiem, please not :P
+ Mar 04 10:23:55 <Dokujisan> morphed: my lastest list of name searching.... http://pastie.org/private/ocjjrj0175nvbbnqycqna
+ Mar 04 10:24:00 <div0> morphed: I mean as game name
+ Mar 04 10:24:06 <div0> OGDFPS isn't too good :P
+ Mar 04 10:24:12 <div0> DaveFPS is better for that, then :P
+ Mar 04 10:24:24 <morphed> i mean team name
+ Mar 04 10:24:27 <div0> also, OGD sounds like OCD
+ Mar 04 10:24:36 <Dokujisan> we discussed that the team name would be based on the game name
+ Mar 04 10:24:41 <Dokujisan> since the team would only focus on this one game
+ Mar 04 10:24:41 <div0> probably best
+ Mar 04 10:24:47 <div0> if there are spinoffs, they can have their own team name
+ Mar 04 10:24:51 <div0> and team wouldn't be exclusive
+ Mar 04 10:24:59 <div0> so one person can be on multiple teams with no problem :P
+ Mar 04 10:25:28 <div0> basically, I think we should be "open source development team of $GAME", and not "company developing $GAME" :P
+ Mar 04 10:25:39 <}-z-{> div0: what are you going to do about netradiant?
+ Mar 04 10:25:47 <div0> why?
+ Mar 04 10:25:49 <div0> that name can stay
+ Mar 04 10:25:55 <div0> also will stay on icculus
+ Mar 04 10:25:56 <}-z-{> under alientrap as well?
+ Mar 04 10:26:00 <div0> whether on alientrap, not sure
+ Mar 04 10:26:03 <div0> it's just the wiki there anyway
+ Mar 04 10:26:09 <div0> can be copied/moved anyway
+ Mar 04 10:26:15 <div0> development of NR is not alientrap hosted anyway
+ Mar 04 10:26:42 <Dokujisan> that's good
+ Mar 04 10:26:43 <div0> however - if we make a portal with lots of "newnex" related stuff
+ Mar 04 10:26:47 <div0> then NR shall go there too
+ Mar 04 10:26:52 <div0> it'd simply BELONG there
+ Mar 04 10:26:58 <div0> old page on alientrap can become a redirect
+ Mar 04 10:27:05 <}-z-{> which is the point I'm trying to make :-P
+ Mar 04 10:27:15 <}-z-{> just something to consider while we talk out all plans
+ Mar 04 10:27:33 <Dokujisan> we can expect to do redirects on alientrap.org? :-o
+ Mar 04 10:27:35 <div0> just, I doubt redmine wiki can perform a redirect
+ Mar 04 10:27:43 <}-z-{> yes we can
+ Mar 04 10:27:46 <div0> Dokujisan: I really doubt that AT will object to it
+ Mar 04 10:27:48 <}-z-{> div0: meta tag at worst
+ Mar 04 10:27:48 <div0> so yes, we can
+ Mar 04 10:27:52 <Dokujisan> ok
+ Mar 04 10:27:52 <div0> AT simply wouldn't care :P
+ Mar 04 10:27:55 <}-z-{> .htaccess at best
+ Mar 04 10:28:05 <div0> only alientrap.org/nexuiz we maybe can't get :P
+ Mar 04 10:28:05 <}-z-{> nexzen.org AVAILABLE
+ Mar 04 10:28:09 <div0> dev.alientrap.org sure will be ours
+ Mar 04 10:28:24 <morphed> isnt alientrap.org hosted on willis server ?
+ Mar 04 10:28:28 <div0> yes, so?
+ Mar 04 10:28:35 <}-z-{> zennex.org AVAILABLE
+ Mar 04 10:28:38 <div0> basically, I am saying... dev.alientrap.org is not public
+ Mar 04 10:28:44 <div0> if we don't annoy Vermeulen TOO much
+ Mar 04 10:28:51 <div0> we will sure be able to keep a redirect from there
+ Mar 04 10:28:57 <div0> (or even the whole hostname in DNS)
+ Mar 04 10:29:07 <div0> [-z-]: no zen please :P
+ Mar 04 10:29:14 <div0> it's a religious term
+ Mar 04 10:29:18 <div0> keep religion out of the game
+ Mar 04 10:29:24 <}-z-{> spirital maybe, religious?
+ Mar 04 10:29:28 <div0> yes
+ Mar 04 10:29:31 <div0> same thing basically
+ Mar 04 10:29:37 <}-z-{> well it does make me think of zencart
+ Mar 04 10:29:41 <}-z-{> which is anything but ZEN
+ Mar 04 10:29:42 <div0> it is a form of belief
+ Mar 04 10:29:52 <}-z-{> it's more like an abortion of code
+ Mar 04 10:29:55 <div0> one one in a God, but still a belief
+ Mar 04 10:29:57 <div0> so is atheism :P
+ Mar 04 10:30:03 <div0> *not
+ Mar 04 10:30:14 <}-z-{> jesusnexgodbuddha.com
+ Mar 04 10:30:17 <div0> no :P
+ Mar 04 10:30:22 <div0> you forgot the flying spaghetti monster
+ Mar 04 10:30:25 <div0> and xenu
+ Mar 04 10:30:26 <}-z-{> :-P
+ Mar 04 10:30:27 <div0> and and and
+ Mar 04 10:30:34 <}-z-{> of course xenu, how could I forget :-P
+ Mar 04 10:30:39 <div0> but seriously - don't go there
+ Mar 04 10:31:02 <}-z-{> renexia ?
+ Mar 04 10:31:09 <div0> doesn't fit the game
+ Mar 04 10:31:12 <div0> sounds like a MMORPG
+ Mar 04 10:31:29 <div0> renexed?
+ Mar 04 10:31:32 <div0> (like: reslimed)
+ Mar 04 10:31:40 <}-z-{> it's available
+ Mar 04 10:31:47 <div0> but I don't really like it
+ Mar 04 10:31:50 <div0> it's a bit uninspired :P
+ Mar 04 10:32:02 <div0> too generic
+ Mar 04 10:33:05 <div0> NARF ain't a RipofF
+ Mar 04 10:33:08 <}-z-{> nexy.us AVAILABLE
+ Mar 04 10:33:28 <div0> am not a friend of .us, but fine, put in the list
+ Mar 04 10:33:39 <}-z-{> we can just call it nexy in that case :-P
+ Mar 04 10:33:40 <div0> unless the name means we have to take leileilol's models
+ Mar 04 10:33:49 <}-z-{> how's that?
+ Mar 04 10:33:54 <div0> nexy, no, 116000 google hits
+ Mar 04 10:34:28 <div0> still... try brainstorming for non-nex names
+ Mar 04 10:34:36 <div0> these have been under-tried :P
+ Mar 04 10:34:51 <div0> I think we have enough stuff with nex now :P
+ Mar 04 10:34:55 <div0> Crylix
+ Mar 04 10:35:04 <div0> Cryluiz
+ Mar 04 10:35:07 <}-z-{> makes me think of orange things
+ Mar 04 10:35:14 <div0> hm...
+ Mar 04 10:35:23 <}-z-{> sounds like crylink too :-P
+ Mar 04 10:35:25 <div0> Hagrix
+ Mar 04 10:35:28 <}-z-{> ha
+ Mar 04 10:35:32 <}-z-{> I see what you're doing
+ Mar 04 10:35:49 <div0> right :P
+ Mar 04 10:35:52 <morphed> xolaris
+ Mar 04 10:35:55 <div0> don't have to name it after the Nex
+ Mar 04 10:36:11 <div0> Laseris
+ Mar 04 10:36:17 <div0> no, bad
+ Mar 04 10:36:28 <div0> can we rename the laser gun BTW?
+ Mar 04 10:36:34 <div0> (like, to the new name of the game)
+ Mar 04 10:36:43 <div0> it is the most important part of the game after all
+ Mar 04 10:36:49 <div0> should be named like the game
+ Mar 04 10:36:56 <div0> the sniper gun on the other hand is quite generic :P
+ Mar 04 10:37:22 <div0> morphed: Xolaris... haha
+ Mar 04 10:37:34 <div0> just noticed now that it is not named after Solaris but after a player model :P
+ Mar 04 10:37:41 <div0> Nexitant
+ Mar 04 10:37:54 <div0> "Skadium"
+ Mar 04 10:38:02 <div0> "Spexop"
+ Mar 04 10:38:11 <}-z-{> I'm the skad man! "skiddly diddly bo boop wow"
+ Mar 04 10:38:13 <div0> "The Incredible Marine"
+ Mar 04 10:38:21 <}-z-{> TIM
+ Mar 04 10:38:29 <div0> right
+ Mar 04 10:38:35 <}-z-{> no more dave
+ Mar 04 10:38:40 <div0> I am already using that as "working title" for rube goldberg machines :P
+ Mar 04 10:38:50 <}-z-{> ;)
+ Mar 04 10:38:51 <div0> and a possible future TIM-like mod :P
+ Mar 04 10:39:01 <}-z-{> I wish there was a good FOSS version of TIM
+ Mar 04 10:39:11 <div0> I was going to make one based on Nexuiz
+ Mar 04 10:39:17 <}-z-{> >.>
+ Mar 04 10:39:18 <div0> but stopped when finding out how unpredictable ODE is in DP
+ Mar 04 10:39:28 <}-z-{> :-\
+ Mar 04 10:39:33 <div0> I could reset the machine and restart, and it failed in another way
+ Mar 04 10:39:47 <morphed> its realistic that way
+ Mar 04 10:39:50 <div0> morphed: yes
+ Mar 04 10:39:52 <div0> but annoying :P
+ Mar 04 10:40:10 <div0> once that ODE problem is solved
+ Mar 04 10:40:15 <div0> I _will_ make the TIM-like game
+ Mar 04 10:40:16 <div0> except in 3D
+ Mar 04 10:40:22 <div0> so you move in spectator mode around, and move stuff
+ Mar 04 10:40:30 <div0> and then can start the machine
+ Mar 04 10:40:31 <Dokujisan> ok I'm going to start venturing more into the non-nex names
+ Mar 04 10:40:34 <div0> watch it from your view
+ Mar 04 10:40:42 <div0> and at any time, reset and edit further
+ Mar 04 10:41:06 <div0> but, for this the ODE support must become more stable
+ Mar 04 10:41:19 <Dokujisan> keep in mind that I'm tracking these names I'm trying just for ideas, so even if dellum is obviously bad (which I think it is) it could lead to another idea
+ Mar 04 10:41:28 <div0> right
+ Mar 04 10:41:35 <div0> maybe categorize further into bad ideas and possibly okay :P
+ Mar 04 10:41:42 <div0> we don't have anything really good yet, though
+ Mar 04 10:41:44 <}-z-{> Novel Earth Xebec
+ Mar 04 10:41:47 <div0> the "bad ideas" of course can be revived
+ Mar 04 10:42:15 <div0> anyway, have to go
+ Mar 04 10:42:19 <div0> have fun, and find a good name :P
+ Mar 04 10:42:28 <}-z-{> :-P
+ Mar 04 10:42:32 <}-z-{> laterz
+ Mar 04 10:42:35 <Dokujisan> cya
+ Mar 04 10:42:38 <div0> don't worry, unless you call it nextoris, I won't be likely to reject it
+ Mar 04 10:42:51 <div0> (although, that would go well with Zygotic)
+ Mar 04 10:43:46 <}-z-{> nexfork
+ Mar 04 10:43:48 <}-z-{> ^_^
+ Mar 04 10:47:51 <Dokujisan> we're going to be letting go of that japanese kanji for "N"
+ Mar 04 10:47:58 <Dokujisan> well that looks like an "N"
+ Mar 04 10:48:03 <Dokujisan> or "n"
+ Mar 04 10:48:08 <Dokujisan> but
+ Mar 04 10:48:12 <}-z-{> maybe find a new kanji character?
+ Mar 04 10:48:23 <Dokujisan> that is why I was leaning toward something beginning with 'x'
+ Mar 04 10:48:54 <morphed> celerity
+ Mar 04 11:22:26 <morphed> i used company name generator and this is what it generated for us http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/6928/companyname.jpg :)
+ Mar 04 11:27:16 <Dokujisan> haha
+ Mar 04 11:36:23 <div0> yes, that onme we want
+ Mar 04 11:39:35 <morphed> but .com is taken :(
+ Mar 04 11:42:06 <morphed> some other company names with .com free to register http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/476/comanynames.jpg ;]
+ Mar 04 11:48:09 <}-z-{> haha, fucki
+ Mar 04 11:50:00 * morphed has quit (Ping timeout: 364 seconds)
+ Mar 04 11:53:55 * morphed (~morphed@095160110118.warszawa.vectranet.pl) has joined #notnexuiz
+ Mar 04 12:11:57 <Dokujisan> }-z-{: you're in florida now?
+ Mar 04 12:15:37 <}-z-{> yes, I am
+ Mar 04 12:15:59 <Dokujisan> which city?
+ Mar 04 12:16:10 <Dokujisan> my dad and brother are in the room and we're discussing possibly moving
+ Mar 04 12:16:15 <}-z-{> Tallahassee
+ Mar 04 12:16:19 <}-z-{> in tha panhandle
+ Mar 04 12:16:29 <Dokujisan> ah, ok. we're talking about the tampa area
+ Mar 04 12:16:34 <Dokujisan> or sarasota
+ Mar 04 12:16:35 <}-z-{> yeah, that's a bit lower :-P
+ Mar 04 12:16:38 <}-z-{> 3-4 hours
+ Mar 04 12:16:42 <}-z-{> actually more
+ Mar 04 12:16:43 <}-z-{> 4-5
+ Mar 04 12:16:45 <}-z-{> haha :)
+ Mar 04 12:16:55 <}-z-{> I'll be back in a bit, guys are waiting for me to go to lunch
+ Mar 04 13:32:58 <Samual> Umm
+ Mar 04 13:33:02 <Samual> Someone highlighted me above
+ Mar 04 13:33:04 <Samual> But my log cut off
+ Mar 04 13:33:10 <Samual> Could someone post back what it was?
+ Mar 04 13:33:31 <Dokujisan> let me check
+ Mar 04 13:34:23 <Samual> Thanks
+ Mar 04 13:37:32 <Dokujisan> Samual: http://pastie.org/private/wx3tynbiguzpap2zzscvpq
+ Mar 04 13:39:27 <Samual> Hmmm
+ Mar 04 13:39:29 <Samual> That's odd
+ Mar 04 13:39:31 <Samual> It's not in there
+ Mar 04 13:39:51 <Samual> It must be older than that Dokujisan
+ Mar 04 13:40:12 <Samual> Meh nevermind, i'm sure it wasn't important
+ Mar 04 13:40:56 <Dokujisan> Samual: sorry, it cut off. Div0 quoted what you said right before that
+ Mar 04 13:41:04 <Dokujisan> about verm being lame, but it's hard to leave nexuiz
+ Mar 04 13:41:16 <Dokujisan> or it's hard to abandon
+ Mar 04 13:46:35 <Samual> Ah
+ Mar 04 14:00:16 <}-z-{> 10% of my job still requires me to unplug something and plug it back in >_<
+ Mar 04 14:08:32 <Samual> -z-: And what would that be?
+ Mar 04 14:08:41 <Samual> -z-: Get switches :P
+ Mar 04 14:48:54 <Samual> Hey div0
+ Mar 04 14:57:56 <morphed> come on, brainstorm that name goddamnit
+ Mar 04 15:16:34 <}-z-{> it is a switch
+ Mar 04 15:16:48 <}-z-{> it's a netgear 48 port switch that I need to unplug once a month when it fucks up
+ Mar 04 15:18:00 <Dokujisan> morphed: I'll do more brainstorming in a bit, but I went through a shitton of names already
+ Mar 04 15:19:19 <Dokujisan> go through this list and remove the ones that you are absolutely against (in the top and bottom lists)
+ Mar 04 15:19:21 <Dokujisan> http://pastie.org/private/3cxafiq3ogsmnbcileaoog
+ Mar 04 15:19:53 <Dokujisan> just go through and indent the ones you don't like
+ Mar 04 15:19:56 <Dokujisan> and give me back the list
+ Mar 04 15:20:01 <Dokujisan> Samual: morphed -z-
+ Mar 04 15:20:07 <Dokujisan> Taoki:
+ Mar 04 15:20:11 <Samual> Hmm?
+ Mar 04 15:20:22 <Samual> Well
+ Mar 04 15:20:24 <Taoki> I'm here for the next minutes
+ Mar 04 15:20:30 <Dokujisan> go through this list and indent the ones that you absolutely don't like and give the list back to me
+ Mar 04 15:20:30 <Dokujisan> http://pastie.org/private/3cxafiq3ogsmnbcileaoog
+ Mar 04 15:20:39 <Dokujisan> in both the top and bottom lists
+ Mar 04 15:20:53 <Taoki> ok
+ Mar 04 15:20:57 <morphed> cant we use 2 words for a name ?
+ Mar 04 15:21:04 <Dokujisan> just start with this first
+ Mar 04 15:21:09 <Dokujisan> smaller name would be better
+ Mar 04 15:21:24 <morphed> why ?
+ Mar 04 15:21:34 <Dokujisan> simplicity
+ Mar 04 15:21:38 <Samual> The easier it is to pronounce the better :P
+ Mar 04 15:21:49 <Samual> :P
+ Mar 04 15:21:51 <Dokujisan> I'm open to two names, but that is more like a Plan D
+ Mar 04 15:21:55 <morphed> i dont have problems with modern warfare, or bad company
+ Mar 04 15:22:04 <Dokujisan> morphed: can you just start with this first?
+ Mar 04 15:22:09 <Dokujisan> and we can get to that idea after
+ Mar 04 15:22:23 <morphed> Dokujisan: im afraid i dont like any name there :(
+ Mar 04 15:22:31 <Dokujisan> pick the better ones
+ Mar 04 15:22:37 <Dokujisan> they're not all equal
+ Mar 04 15:23:26 <morphed> "nexodicok sa
+ Mar 04 15:23:26 <morphed> " really ? :)
+ Mar 04 15:23:43 <Dokujisan> hu?
+ Mar 04 15:23:50 <Dokujisan> oops
+ Mar 04 15:23:56 <Dokujisan> not sure what happened there
+ Mar 04 15:24:10 <morphed> its sounds like mix of nex, dick and cock ;)
+ Mar 04 15:24:14 <Dokujisan> that is supposed to be "nexodic"
+ Mar 04 15:24:26 <Dokujisan> and I accidentlally typed "ok sa"
+ Mar 04 15:24:29 <Dokujisan> like I was in IRC
+ Mar 04 15:24:47 <Dokujisan> I didn't realize which window was active :-P
+ Mar 04 15:25:45 <Samual> I said Zenux btw
+ Mar 04 15:26:30 <Samual> iirc -z- liked that one :X
+ Mar 04 15:26:31 <morphed> Zenon :)
+ Mar 04 15:26:41 <Samual> morphed, no :P Common :P
+ Mar 04 15:26:52 <morphed> its redneck name in polish :)
+ Mar 04 15:37:17 * FruitieX (~FruitieX@a83-245-194-105.elisa-laajakaista.fi) has joined #notnexuiz
+ Mar 04 15:37:21 <FruitieX> Evening.
+ Mar 04 15:37:53 <Samual> Ello
+ Mar 04 15:38:04 <Taoki> hi
+ Mar 04 15:38:07 <morphed> hi
+ Mar 04 15:38:07 <Samual> Right now we're still trying to find a name if we do fork
+ Mar 04 15:38:15 <morphed> when we do fork
+ Mar 04 15:38:17 <Taoki> almmost done with the list here
+ Mar 04 15:38:28 <FruitieX> Zymotic
+ Mar 04 15:38:31 <FruitieX> hehe kidding
+ Mar 04 15:38:47 <morphed> old joke ;)
+ Mar 04 15:40:24 <Taoki> I actually considered that at first, but nah
+ Mar 04 15:41:36 <morphed> Citomyz ziuxen
+ Mar 04 15:44:08 <Dokujisan> did you guys go through that list?
+ Mar 04 15:44:58 <morphed> taoki is working on it right now afaik
+ Mar 04 15:45:11 <Taoki> yes, almost done here, in a minute
+ Mar 04 15:46:29 <morphed> http://norefuge.net/vgng/vgng.html
+ Mar 04 15:47:34 <morphed> Amish Assault Pinball
+ Mar 04 15:48:19 <FruitieX> Lol
+ Mar 04 15:48:21 <morphed> Battle Shock
+ Mar 04 15:48:21 <Taoki> Done here http://pastebin.com/nWkJF7TD
+ Mar 04 15:48:31 <Taoki> Yeah, I left only 4 from the available .coms
+ Mar 04 15:48:42 <Dokujisan> thanks
+ Mar 04 15:48:46 <Taoki> Np
+ Mar 04 15:49:05 <Taoki> After this, we should probably make a tpo 5-6 and do an elimination, or a forum pool with them
+ Mar 04 15:49:09 <Taoki> *top
+ Mar 04 15:49:10 <FruitieX> does not have to be .com :-)
+ Mar 04 15:49:20 <Taoki> thats good
+ Mar 04 15:49:34 <Samual> I personally want Zenux :P
+ Mar 04 15:49:48 <Samual> Or Xenux
+ Mar 04 15:50:31 <Taoki> Yes, same with the first :)
+ Mar 04 15:50:39 <morphed> its it name of a god of some cult ?
+ Mar 04 15:50:39 <Taoki> Xenux too, but not as much
+ Mar 04 15:51:06 <Taoki> Zenux or Zenuix or even Zeniux were my favorites from the start
+ Mar 04 15:51:06 <Samual> What I would prefer is not having to change the name at all
+ Mar 04 15:51:12 <Samual> But it seems IllFonic doesn't want that.
+ Mar 04 15:52:45 <morphed> everybody have troubles saying nexuiz
+ Mar 04 15:52:53 <Dokujisan> yep
+ Mar 04 15:52:58 <}-z-{> div suggested we call it 'capsized' :-P
+ Mar 04 15:53:01 <Dokujisan> Nexuiz never was a good name
+ Mar 04 15:53:13 <}-z-{> as a joke of course but I figured I'd spread the humor
+ Mar 04 15:53:17 <Dokujisan> but the symbol was good and the shortened "Nex" and "Nexers" sounded good
+ Mar 04 15:53:31 <}-z-{> nextfps
+ Mar 04 15:53:37 <Dokujisan> so if we can come up with a name that also has good features, but isn't confusing to pronounce, then we'll be doing well
+ Mar 04 15:53:55 <}-z-{> nexfor (what's a nex for?)
+ Mar 04 15:54:09 <FruitieX> 22:53:15 < }-z-{> div suggested we call it 'capsized' :-P
+ Mar 04 15:54:10 <FruitieX> :p
+ Mar 04 15:54:12 <}-z-{> there's a dickfore on your face
+ Mar 04 15:54:17 <}-z-{> "what's a dick for?"
+ Mar 04 15:54:22 <Dokujisan> Try to imagine the first time you saw the name "Nexuiz"
+ Mar 04 15:54:31 <Dokujisan> remind yourself that your reaction was "wtf?"
+ Mar 04 15:54:46 <Dokujisan> so that way when we are thinking about this new name, we're letting that name go
+ Mar 04 15:55:14 <Dokujisan> we've been conditioned to be used to "Nexuiz" and we're familiar with it now and associate good things with it
+ Mar 04 15:55:18 <Dokujisan> but it's really not an awesome name
+ Mar 04 15:55:36 <}-z-{> I said, "oh, must be european"
+ Mar 04 15:55:44 <Dokujisan> likewise, we can build up another name that starts off being more clear to pronounce
+ Mar 04 15:55:49 <Samual> I thought it was alien.....
+ Mar 04 15:55:52 <Samual> .... Alientrap
+ Mar 04 15:55:52 <morphed> iirc when nexuiz was showed first time in tv, presenter had troubles to say it
+ Mar 04 15:55:59 <}-z-{> because we english speaking folk only use language rules that make sense.....
+ Mar 04 15:57:28 <Dokujisan> <CuBe0wL> tbh, me too :D
+ Mar 04 15:57:35 <Dokujisan> <CuBe0wL> I never knew how to spell it, untill the first time I've heard the announcer :D
+ Mar 04 15:57:44 <Dokujisan> I'm talking cubeowl into the fork
+ Mar 04 15:57:56 <Dokujisan> he's kinda heartbroken
+ Mar 04 15:58:08 <Dokujisan> sorta like Samual :-P
+ Mar 04 15:58:14 <Samual> Yes >.>
+ Mar 04 15:58:18 <Samual> I liked Nexuiz <.<
+ Mar 04 15:58:31 <Samual> On the other hand, this leaves us open to changes
+ Mar 04 15:58:36 <Dokujisan> exactly!
+ Mar 04 15:58:38 <Dokujisan> good changes!!!
+ Mar 04 15:58:39 <Samual> And it allows us to structure the team better
+ Mar 04 15:58:43 <Dokujisan> yes!!!!!!!
+ Mar 04 16:00:25 <}-z-{> yep
+ Mar 04 16:00:31 <}-z-{> build a stronger smarter foundation
+ Mar 04 16:00:36 <}-z-{> and 'clean out the attic' if you will
+ Mar 04 16:01:01 <morphed> also it will boost motivation and energy
+ Mar 04 16:01:11 <}-z-{> the hardest part of the transition will be to rebuild the infrastructure for development
+ Mar 04 16:01:18 <}-z-{> which will take a least 3 servers
+ Mar 04 16:01:23 <Dokujisan> samual, -z-, morphed: did you go through the list?
+ Mar 04 16:01:35 <}-z-{> the repository can be handled on icculus git
+ Mar 04 16:01:57 <}-z-{> I have a machine (nn vps) I can donate to be used for test builds and test servers, maybe other things
+ Mar 04 16:02:17 <}-z-{> and shared hosting for the website, mirrors. dokujisan I believe also has a webserver for such files
+ Mar 04 16:02:25 <}-z-{> I have a mac to do cross platform compiles
+ Mar 04 16:02:29 <}-z-{> Dokujisan: not yet
+ Mar 04 16:02:52 <Samual> Dokujisan, I honestly don't like many at all :P lawl Taoki's list is more than what I would've liked
+ Mar 04 16:03:21 <Dokujisan> Samual: this is to help give a direction on more brainstorming
+ Mar 04 16:03:31 <}-z-{> zeniux is the smoothest out of the list still but not sure if that's the best and div didn't want to use 'zen'
+ Mar 04 16:03:37 <Dokujisan> pick your best, even if they aren't fully good enough for your liking
+ Mar 04 16:03:57 <Samual> Xenuix?
+ Mar 04 16:04:02 <Samual> Er
+ Mar 04 16:04:03 <}-z-{> that's gross
+ Mar 04 16:04:04 <Samual> Xeniux
+ Mar 04 16:04:13 <Samual> stfu fool, I don't see you thinking up anything better
+ Mar 04 16:04:25 <}-z-{> that's because you weren't here earlier when we were thinking
+ Mar 04 16:04:29 <}-z-{> oooooh
+ Mar 04 16:04:34 <}-z-{> gonna need some ice for that burn :-P
+ Mar 04 16:04:35 <Samual> I saw the log
+ Mar 04 16:04:46 <Samual> Dokujisan pastebined it :P
+ Mar 04 16:04:47 <}-z-{> how about notnex?
+ Mar 04 16:04:48 <Samual> I wasn't impressed
+ Mar 04 16:05:01 <Dokujisan> Samual: where?
+ Mar 04 16:05:09 <Samual> From this room?
+ Mar 04 16:05:09 <Dokujisan> oh nvm
+ Mar 04 16:05:12 <Dokujisan> I misread
+ Mar 04 16:05:14 <Samual> lawl
+ Mar 04 16:05:26 <}-z-{> uzinex
+ Mar 04 16:05:48 <}-z-{> zinex.org AVAILABLE
+ Mar 04 16:05:56 <}-z-{> 5 letter ones are good if we can get one of derm
+ Mar 04 16:06:14 <Dokujisan> yreah
+ Mar 04 16:06:25 <}-z-{> xudex
+ Mar 04 16:06:27 <}-z-{> ex you decks
+ Mar 04 16:06:34 <}-z-{> welcome to ex you decks
+ Mar 04 16:07:01 <Dokujisan> don't pick each name apart. mainly just skim through and remove the ones that are absolutely horrible
+ Mar 04 16:07:03 <morphed> Dokujisan: my filter http://pastie.org/854491
+ Mar 04 16:07:07 <Dokujisan> k thanks
+ Mar 04 16:07:21 <FruitieX> zinex.org is something to consider :-)
+ Mar 04 16:07:22 <}-z-{> devnex?
+ Mar 04 16:07:32 <morphed> how about we invite tzork here ?
+ Mar 04 16:07:37 <}-z-{> go for it
+ Mar 04 16:07:38 <Dokujisan> absolutely
+ Mar 04 16:07:40 <FruitieX> do it
+ Mar 04 16:07:44 <Dokujisan> I was trying to get cubeowl first
+ Mar 04 16:07:47 <}-z-{> dev[elopers][nex]uiz
+ Mar 04 16:07:55 <}-z-{> err, I did my boxes rong
+ Mar 04 16:08:01 <}-z-{> dev[elopers]nex[uiz]
+ Mar 04 16:08:03 <}-z-{> wrong*
+ Mar 04 16:08:04 <}-z-{> ^_^
+ Mar 04 16:08:15 <Samual> dex?
+ Mar 04 16:08:17 <Samual> :P
+ Mar 04 16:08:23 * CuBe0wL (~akion@BKTFW13.usn.hu) has joined #notnexuiz
+ Mar 04 16:08:26 <Dokujisan> yay :-D
+ Mar 04 16:08:29 <Samual> Welcome, CuBe0wL
+ Mar 04 16:08:30 <CuBe0wL> hey
+ Mar 04 16:08:33 <}-z-{> hey
+ Mar 04 16:08:58 <morphed> hi
+ Mar 04 16:09:08 <Dokujisan> CuBe0wL: go through this list and remove the ones that are absolutely horrible and give the list back to me... http://pastie.org/private/3cxafiq3ogsmnbcileaoog
+ Mar 04 16:09:49 <morphed> or shot some new names
+ Mar 04 16:09:55 <FruitieX> hai CuBe0wL
+ Mar 04 16:09:57 <Dokujisan> do that after
+ Mar 04 16:10:39 <FruitieX> night
+ Mar 04 16:10:41 <CuBe0wL> I think I'll have to read the avaible .coms
+ Mar 04 16:10:43 <FruitieX> will read backlog in morning :>
+ Mar 04 16:10:57 <Samual> Dokujisan, can you include .org?
+ Mar 04 16:11:01 <Dokujisan> CuBe0wL: we have a plan A and plan B...so choose also the non-available .coms
+ Mar 04 16:11:10 <Samual> How are you generating that list Dokujisan
+ Mar 04 16:11:12 <Dokujisan> Samual: we'll get to that after
+ Mar 04 16:11:14 <Dokujisan> by hand
+ Mar 04 16:11:28 <Samual> I bet you can get a script to do that
+ Mar 04 16:11:31 <}-z-{> biznex haha
+ Mar 04 16:11:32 * Samual looks at -z-
+ Mar 04 16:11:46 <}-z-{> was funnier in my head
+ Mar 04 16:11:55 <Dokujisan> Samual: I have a program that will do it actually
+ Mar 04 16:11:58 <}-z-{> because it sounds like 'biznazz'
+ Mar 04 16:12:08 <}-z-{> Samual: I have one, it's called an intern :-P
+ Mar 04 16:12:42 <Samual> Bitch I have one too
+ Mar 04 16:12:46 <Samual> It's called a bash script
+ Mar 04 16:12:52 <}-z-{> more like bitch script
+ Mar 04 16:12:54 <Samual> It just resolves the names :P
+ Mar 04 16:12:55 <Samual> -.-
+ Mar 04 16:12:58 <}-z-{> :-P
+ Mar 04 16:13:11 <CuBe0wL> Quadriux ?
+ Mar 04 16:13:29 <}-z-{> alright, time to hop onto my iron horse and gallop away from the falling sun
+ Mar 04 16:13:40 <}-z-{> I will catch you gentlemen later
+ Mar 04 16:13:41 <CuBe0wL> pronounced as "Kvadrius"
+ Mar 04 16:13:49 <}-z-{> keep me updated on progress
+ Mar 04 16:14:03 <}-z-{> quadraplinex
+ Mar 04 16:14:16 <}-z-{> cleanex (har har)
+ Mar 04 16:14:29 <}-z-{> klennex is a brand of facial tissues
+ Mar 04 16:14:31 <CuBe0wL> xodiox ... this one has pottential imhp
+ Mar 04 16:14:32 <Samual> We'd get sued on that one
+ Mar 04 16:14:39 <}-z-{> k, pz
+ Mar 04 16:14:44 <Samual> kleenex actually :P
+ Mar 04 16:14:44 <Samual> Cya
+ Mar 04 16:14:52 <CuBe0wL> bye }-z-{
+ Mar 04 16:14:56 <morphed> CuBe0wL: xanax ;)
+ Mar 04 16:15:04 <CuBe0wL> haha
+ Mar 04 16:15:30 * Dokujisan waits for lists :-)
+ Mar 04 16:15:34 <morphed> exacly
+ Mar 04 16:15:34 <CuBe0wL> Forxiuz
+ Mar 04 16:15:37 <CuBe0wL> :D
+ Mar 04 16:15:41 * Dokujisan looks at Samual
+ Mar 04 16:15:45 <morphed> CuBe0wL: maybe you know some cool drugs name ? :)
+ Mar 04 16:15:54 <Samual> Oh I didn't actually MAKE the script yet
+ Mar 04 16:16:02 <Samual> Tell -z- to make his interns do shit
+ Mar 04 16:16:46 <CuBe0wL> 3-4-phosohoribozile-amino-imidazole-suchsinocarboxamid-snthethase :D
+ Mar 04 16:16:49 <FruitieX> IllNex
+ Mar 04 16:16:52 <FruitieX> NexFonics
+ Mar 04 16:16:56 <FruitieX> -s
+ Mar 04 16:16:58 <FruitieX> k bai :p
+ Mar 04 16:17:09 <Dokujisan> Samual: I don't need the script
+ Mar 04 16:17:13 <Dokujisan> just need input on the names
+ Mar 04 16:17:18 <CuBe0wL> that one is an enzyme name btw :D
+ Mar 04 16:17:31 <Samual> I like mainly what Taoki picked out
+ Mar 04 16:17:34 <Dokujisan> ok
+ Mar 04 16:17:47 <Samual> But mostly Zenux or Zeniux or Xenux and etc
+ Mar 04 16:17:51 <CuBe0wL> wuzzat?
+ Mar 04 16:18:54 <CuBe0wL> zeniux... yeah, then we'll have shaloin monks fighting over what's the best way to place that vase in a map according to latest feng-shui trends
+ Mar 04 16:19:31 <Samual> Haha
+ Mar 04 16:19:34 <Samual> Okay >.>
+ Mar 04 16:19:34 <morphed> zeniux is very silly in polish
+ Mar 04 16:19:47 <Samual> Yes
+ Mar 04 16:20:17 <CuBe0wL> bbl
+ Mar 04 16:20:41 <Samual> Hey another thing we can change
+ Mar 04 16:20:43 <Samual> NEW FONT.
+ Mar 04 16:20:46 <Samual> ..........
+ Mar 04 16:20:47 <Samual> .....................
+ Mar 04 16:21:05 <Samual> amiriteoramirite?
+ Mar 04 16:21:09 <morphed> maybe some cheesy oldschool arcade game name that tells about gameplay ?
+ Mar 04 16:21:21 <CuBe0wL> wingdings at least
+ Mar 04 16:23:15 <Samual> SFIACF?
+ Mar 04 16:23:16 <Samual> :X
+ Mar 04 16:23:29 <Samual> Simple, fast, intense and completely free -.-
+ Mar 04 16:23:31 <Samual> Nah i'm kidding.
+ Mar 04 16:24:59 <Dokujisan> ok here are my picks from the list
+ Mar 04 16:25:00 <Dokujisan> http://pastie.org/private/i9x5ccvczyqjajmngwhzwa
+ Mar 04 16:25:44 * tZork (~blah@c-b42f72d5.31-97-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) has joined #notnexuiz
+ Mar 04 16:25:53 <morphed> hi
+ Mar 04 16:25:54 <Samual> Ello tZork
+ Mar 04 16:26:01 <Dokujisan> I mostly like nexeon, nexion, nexotic, nexilus or nexolus out of the whole list....but I could tolerate the others
+ Mar 04 16:26:02 <tZork> hi
+ Mar 04 16:26:27 <Samual> Well
+ Mar 04 16:26:44 <Samual> I would say we could do a forum post and have a poll.....
+ Mar 04 16:26:49 <Dokujisan> nooooooooo
+ Mar 04 16:26:52 <Dokujisan> can't do this publicly
+ Mar 04 16:26:54 <Samual> But do we want to announce that we're doing this --
+ Mar 04 16:26:56 <Samual> Yeah
+ Mar 04 16:27:09 <tZork> to get the basics outa the way first: im not nessesarely pro-fork
+ Mar 04 16:27:21 <Dokujisan> yeah I cubeowl suggested that
+ Mar 04 16:27:44 <Dokujisan> cubeowl wasn't either, but I think I helped clear up some things about it for him. Now he's likely on the fence or better
+ Mar 04 16:28:00 <Dokujisan> tZork: what are your main reasons for not wanting a fork in this case?
+ Mar 04 16:28:08 <Dokujisan> what are the downsides?
+ Mar 04 16:28:32 <tZork> forking / renaming is sort of admitting defeat, and could possibly mean a lengthy conflict over who's got teh right to what.
+ Mar 04 16:29:03 <Dokujisan> ok first point, we've already discussed a plan for management
+ Mar 04 16:29:12 <tZork> im not saying im nessesarely against it eigther; just that its not a all good option.
+ Mar 04 16:29:17 <morphed> i think that we cant win this
+ Mar 04 16:29:25 <Dokujisan> it needs refinement, but keep in mind that Nexuiz had no outline for how to manage things
+ Mar 04 16:29:30 <morphed> and with GPL cant be any conflict
+ Mar 04 16:30:07 <Dokujisan> but with this new game, we're talking about having it run by a select group (which hasn't been decided yet, just the idea mentioned) for major decisions
+ Mar 04 16:30:17 <Dokujisan> not one single leader
+ Mar 04 16:30:22 <Dokujisan> and that already is a plus
+ Mar 04 16:30:34 <tZork> i would nto count on it morphed, the last few says i experianced things i tought gpl would make impossible.
+ Mar 04 16:31:05 <Dokujisan> we're also only going to be committed to this one game, unlike alientrap
+ Mar 04 16:31:36 <Dokujisan> verm admits that he did this choice primarily because he wants to further alientrap.
+ Mar 04 16:32:26 <Dokujisan> so whatever name is chosen for the game, the development team will be called "the <game-name> team"
+ Mar 04 16:33:01 <tZork> i sugest keeping the name nexuiz in that case. possibly pre or postfix it.
+ Mar 04 16:33:03 <Dokujisan> so far, we've had some great discussions with div0 over the past 24 hours
+ Mar 04 16:33:10 <Dokujisan> we can't keep the name
+ Mar 04 16:33:17 <Dokujisan> we need to let that go
+ Mar 04 16:33:38 <morphed> also its not such a great name
+ Mar 04 16:33:55 <Dokujisan> here is what I said just a few minutes before you arrived.....
+ Mar 04 16:33:57 <Dokujisan> <Dokujisan> Try to imagine the first time you saw the name "Nexuiz"
+ Mar 04 16:33:57 <Dokujisan> <Dokujisan> remind yourself that your reaction was "wtf?"
+ Mar 04 16:33:57 <Dokujisan> <Dokujisan> so that way when we are thinking about this new name, we're letting that name go
+ Mar 04 16:33:57 <Dokujisan> <Dokujisan> we've been conditioned to be used to "Nexuiz" and we're familiar with it now and associate good things with it
+ Mar 04 16:33:57 <Dokujisan> <Dokujisan> but it's really not an awesome name
+ Mar 04 16:33:57 <Dokujisan> <}-z-{> I said, "oh, must be european"
+ Mar 04 16:33:57 <Dokujisan> <Dokujisan> likewise, we can build up another name that starts off being more clear to pronounce
+ Mar 04 16:34:07 <tZork> sure we can, noone owns it afaik. so something like Nexuiz::Nextgen is totally ok to use. and as a plus it will draw some media from ill*
+ Mar 04 16:34:12 <tZork> and at
+ Mar 04 16:34:57 <Dokujisan> I would think that alientrap would be able to fight for rights to that trademark....and that means vermeluen
+ Mar 04 16:35:07 <tZork> <}-z-{> I said, "oh, must be european"
+ Mar 04 16:35:13 <tZork> teh fuck lol?
+ Mar 04 16:35:23 <Dokujisan> and I wouldn't feel right about just stealing that name anyway...not to mention that we don't have the domain
+ Mar 04 16:35:32 <Dokujisan> for whatever name we choose, we should have control over the domain
+ Mar 04 16:35:44 <Dokujisan> so nobody can just sell it or give it someone else
+ Mar 04 16:36:34 <Dokujisan> we also discussed numerous other improvements that we can focus on
+ Mar 04 16:36:45 <Dokujisan> like div0 agreed to a central registration system
+ Mar 04 16:36:50 <morphed> tZork: for me it sounds french
+ Mar 04 16:36:57 <Dokujisan> with ihs certain preferences for protecting privacy
+ Mar 04 16:37:02 <Dokujisan> his*
+ Mar 04 16:37:16 <Dokujisan> and I talked with him at length about doing official training servers
+ Mar 04 16:37:27 <Dokujisan> and organizing mapping projects
+ Mar 04 16:37:42 <Dokujisan> basically, I hope to become an official community organizer in that regard
+ Mar 04 16:38:21 <Dokujisan> "official" being key here. When things are left to be done by only the community, there is a disadvantage. If things are done from the top down, a lot more momentum can be achieved.
+ Mar 04 16:38:39 <Dokujisan> I can hopefully do what I did for nexuiz but on a larger scale
+ Mar 04 16:39:07 <Dokujisan> this is precisely why I wanted a fork for nexuiz last year....but we didn't have a main developer
+ Mar 04 16:39:24 <Dokujisan> Nexuiz is a semi-successful project by accident
+ Mar 04 16:39:54 <Dokujisan> if it were handled properly, it would have achieved so much more by now
+ Mar 04 16:40:18 <tZork> i allready have two other game projects fightning for my attention, beside my regular work. only reaso i stayed with nexuiz was the legacy and the community.
+ Mar 04 16:40:20 <Dokujisan> but it really didn't have any organization or leadership. Div0 lead out of necessity
+ Mar 04 16:40:42 <Dokujisan> well really the community is likely to come along with us
+ Mar 04 16:41:03 <Dokujisan> we're going along with the new fork....and you like us, right? :-D
+ Mar 04 16:41:17 <Dokujisan> .........right? :-o
+ Mar 04 16:41:36 <Dokujisan> :-(
+ Mar 04 16:41:44 <Dokujisan> anyway, yeah I know you're involved with other games
+ Mar 04 16:42:04 <tZork> im sure not against you, but i dont know if i want to get involved at this point
+ Mar 04 16:42:14 <Dokujisan> like with cubeowl, I know you're busy and I wouldn't be asking you to take some official role that takes up all of your time
+ Mar 04 16:42:21 <Dokujisan> just support this new project in the same way you did nexuiz
+ Mar 04 16:42:24 <tZork> better to state that now then let you doos know it later
+ Mar 04 16:42:31 <morphed> tZork: but legacy will stay, and community will follow us
+ Mar 04 16:43:10 <tZork> morphed: maybe, but its a chanse for me to make a break with it all. its not like im swamped with free time thise days.
+ Mar 04 16:43:32 <tZork> unlike when i first found nexuiz
+ Mar 04 16:43:47 <Dokujisan> I'm familiar with that
+ Mar 04 16:44:41 <tZork> one of my otehr projects is possibly merge-able with this fork tough. it thats doable; the story is diffrent.
+ Mar 04 16:44:57 <morphed> its like heroin, you cant quit :)
+ Mar 04 16:45:18 <Taoki> back
+ Mar 04 16:45:25 <Dokujisan> tZork: can you tell us more?
+ Mar 04 16:45:30 <Dokujisan> or is it under wraps?
+ Mar 04 16:45:34 <Taoki> Wow, nice to see so many people joined here :)
+ Mar 04 16:45:44 <tZork> not really Dokujisan, theres just not all that much to tell
+ Mar 04 16:46:30 <tZork> teh idea was to make a game that adress what we tought nexuiz was missing.
+ Mar 04 16:47:15 <Dokujisan> :-)
+ Mar 04 16:47:17 <Dokujisan> perfect
+ Mar 04 16:47:23 <tZork> and start from a clean codebase
+ Mar 04 16:47:28 <Dokujisan> ah I see
+ Mar 04 16:47:39 <Dokujisan> well that's interesting to me, though I'm not a nexuiz developer
+ Mar 04 16:48:28 <tZork> basicaly just briging along some ideas, both art and code are to be re-built to adress the large issue of legacy bagage nexuiz suffers from.
+ Mar 04 16:48:37 <Dokujisan> I've heard from other developers that there are some things in nexuiz code that need a cleanup
+ Mar 04 16:49:39 <tZork> despite div0's exelent work on it, its sadly still very much a planless design. as sutch adding and chaning and not the least understanding the code takes a massive effort
+ Mar 04 16:49:52 <tZork> at times
+ Mar 04 16:49:55 <Dokujisan> but I think this central user system is a HUGE change that div0 is finally onboard with and he sees the benefits of it
+ Mar 04 16:50:30 <Dokujisan> and that system can allow a lot of other features to be possible
+ Mar 04 16:51:19 <tZork> the second part of l!ft (the oterh project) where to place it in a steam-punk'ish artline. and quite possibly introduce classbased gameplay and PvM gameplay
+ Mar 04 16:53:02 <Dokujisan> I have basically been slowly heading out the door over the past 6 months as far as Nexuiz is concerned. I was too dissatisfied and wanted to focus on something more productive, so I also have other projects that I'm getting involved in
+ Mar 04 16:53:13 <Dokujisan> I gave up on Nexuiz community efforts
+ Mar 04 16:53:21 <Dokujisan> because it was like swimming upstream
+ Mar 04 16:53:38 <tZork> indeed
+ Mar 04 16:53:43 <Dokujisan> and this is why I tried to organize a fork before.... like last August
+ Mar 04 16:54:03 <Dokujisan> but this mistake by vermeleun could turn out to be a wonderful thing
+ Mar 04 16:54:05 <Dokujisan> a clean slate
+ Mar 04 16:54:54 <Dokujisan> and this interests me again
+ Mar 04 16:55:08 <Dokujisan> especially after my conversations with div0 over the past 24 hours
+ Mar 04 16:55:35 <Dokujisan> to be honest, div0 has changed over the past ....I dunno... 8 moths? To me he seems to have changed
+ Mar 04 16:56:27 <Dokujisan> months*
+ Mar 04 16:57:27 <Dokujisan> but it was good conversation, good ideas discussed and if half of them actually happen, the result will be a game a lot better than Nexuiz
+ Mar 04 16:57:58 <Dokujisan> with a bigger and stronger community
+ Mar 04 16:58:16 <tZork> i will air this with the l!ft team and get back
+ Mar 04 17:01:11 <Dokujisan> cool
+ Mar 04 17:01:17 <tZork> i do have a few thing i feel strongly should be done if i are to join this fork, like at the very least trash all current player models and seriosly audit the code. preferably remake it by pulling things over to a new codebase.
+ Mar 04 17:01:35 <Dokujisan> yes we did discuss new player models
+ Mar 04 17:01:57 <Dokujisan> and a new set of default maps
+ Mar 04 17:02:13 <tZork> that too
+ Mar 04 17:02:18 <Dokujisan> I started a list of maps that could use "fixing" and testing before being added
+ Mar 04 17:09:11 <Taoki> http://alientrap.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=6054 =P
+ Mar 04 17:09:32 <Taoki> Been crazy enough to work on that all day
+ Mar 04 17:10:51 <tZork> hahaha
+ Mar 04 17:10:55 <tZork> exelent
+ Mar 04 17:11:05 <Taoki> thanks :P
+ Mar 04 17:11:18 <Taoki> http://pics.nexuizninjaz.com/images/zbcmceics6shje6u8wk9.jpg
+ Mar 04 17:11:42 <tZork> however.. make red spawn with tuba only. };P
+ Mar 04 17:12:13 <tZork> yarr i lol @ that pic Taoki =)
+ Mar 04 17:12:26 <Dokujisan> hahaha
+ Mar 04 17:12:32 <Taoki> I can't stop laughing myself... :D
+ Mar 04 17:12:57 <Dokujisan> very clever :-)
+ Mar 04 17:13:33 <Taoki> thx
+ Mar 04 17:13:38 <Dokujisan> Taoki: CTF?
+ Mar 04 17:13:42 <tZork> "where robbing is a way of showing love" omg spot on xD
+ Mar 04 17:13:48 <Dokujisan> I'll put it on HOCTF
+ Mar 04 17:13:55 <Taoki> Yeah, TDM and CTF
+ Mar 04 17:14:14 <Taoki> TDM is not so good, since you spawn at any spawn point of any team (not sure if that should be fixed)
+ Mar 04 17:15:56 <Dokujisan> heh you spelled "Nexiuz" properly :-)
+ Mar 04 17:16:03 <Taoki> yeah :P
+ Mar 04 17:20:50 <CuBe0wL> re for a sentence: back on topic, with the serious talking: what do you do with the servers? Let's say, we fork DCC servers to Nexuiz:NeXtgen. how'd you inform the masses, who don't read the forum?
+ Mar 04 17:21:04 <CuBe0wL> also, I've just had a BRILLIANT idea for fork name:
+ Mar 04 17:21:09 <CuBe0wL> Pheonix
+ Mar 04 17:21:22 <CuBe0wL> pronounced ofc. as Phoenix :D
+ Mar 04 17:21:46 <Taoki> Hmmm... that soulds pretty. Nice idea :)
+ Mar 04 17:21:50 <Dokujisan> I'll be informing the masses from HOCTF and HODM servers in the states
+ Mar 04 17:21:52 <CuBe0wL> homage to Nexuiz typo, and representing the way a killed game is reborn from it's ahes :D
+ Mar 04 17:22:12 <Dokujisan> heh, I made a server once called Phoenix
+ Mar 04 17:22:21 <Taoki> As for informing the masses, I spoke about that with div0 yesterday (we all did on the channel iirc). We can make a new csprogs and put it on servers, that will inform about this
+ Mar 04 17:22:24 <Taoki> Also, another idea
+ Mar 04 17:22:31 <Dokujisan> it was "rising from the ashes: of Fusion CTF" my previous server
+ Mar 04 17:22:35 <Dokujisan> turns out that name is overplayed
+ Mar 04 17:22:48 <Dokujisan> ok Nexiuz Wars loading on HOCTF1
+ Mar 04 17:23:00 <Taoki> Alias a command to chat a message when playing on servers. But not to press it all the time in an annoying spammy way
+ Mar 04 17:23:09 <Taoki> I'll do that once the new name is decided
+ Mar 04 17:23:11 <tZork> <CuBe0wL> Pheonix
+ Mar 04 17:23:13 <tZork> +1
+ Mar 04 17:23:16 <Taoki> And press it every once in a while on the DCC servers
+ Mar 04 17:23:20 <Taoki> yeah
+ Mar 04 17:23:53 <CuBe0wL> though I'm still pro Nexuiz, and no forking
+ Mar 04 17:23:59 <CuBe0wL> I like spoon better ;)
+ Mar 04 17:25:35 <Dokujisan> haha Taoki there are holes in the floor
+ Mar 04 17:25:55 <Taoki> holes?
+ Mar 04 17:26:02 <Dokujisan> yeah I fall through
+ Mar 04 17:26:05 <CuBe0wL> OT again before I leave: ffs, we've printed a final draft of my thesis before binding it, to read through once more
+ Mar 04 17:26:17 <Taoki> weird. Probably some compilation issues...
+ Mar 04 17:26:19 <Taoki> *issues
+ Mar 04 17:26:24 <CuBe0wL> I've already written a full A4 page with errors I've found
+ Mar 04 17:26:25 <Dokujisan> right outside the bases
+ Mar 04 17:26:38 <CuBe0wL> and I'm still at only the 10th page
+ Mar 04 17:26:48 <Taoki> If its on the terrain, might be another issue with patch meshes
+ Mar 04 17:31:18 * DibTop (~chatzilla@c-71-233-23-46.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #notnexuiz
+ Mar 04 17:31:28 <DibTop> hi notnexuiz :)
+ Mar 04 17:31:29 <morphed> phoenix is great idea but without switched letters
+ Mar 04 17:31:37 <Taoki> hello
+ Mar 04 17:31:46 <morphed> hi
+ Mar 04 17:31:57 <DibTop> anyone have a pastie of what was already said so no one has to repeat
+ Mar 04 17:32:29 <tZork> i only got a partial
+ Mar 04 17:32:29 <Taoki> I rather like CuBe0wL's version with switched letters. It sounds a bit better for a game like Nexuiz (if we can still call it such until its renamed)
+ Mar 04 17:33:08 <DibTop> one thing im working on right now is rigging oblivion's latest model
+ Mar 04 17:33:14 <tZork> Dokujisan?
+ Mar 04 17:33:22 <DibTop> mostly for practice but if its any good
+ Mar 04 17:34:15 DibTop div0
+ Mar 04 17:34:20 <Dokujisan> DibTop: there has been a ton of conversation
+ Mar 04 17:34:25 <Dokujisan> I'll show you what I have
+ Mar 04 17:34:27 <Dokujisan> hang on
+ Mar 04 17:34:30 <DibTop> thanks
+ Mar 04 17:35:52 <tZork> im interested on what was said before i arrived too Dokujisan
+ Mar 04 17:36:37 <Dokujisan> here is the entire chat since I joine #notnexuiz yesterday
+ Mar 04 17:36:39 <Dokujisan> http://www.nullgaming.com/stuff/notnexuiz.log
+ Mar 04 17:37:43 <tZork> heh a bit if bedtime reading ^^
+ Mar 04 17:37:48 <Dokujisan> :-)
+ Mar 04 17:39:58 * soul81 (~soul@a83-163-47-227.adsl.xs4all.nl) has joined #notnexuiz
+ Mar 04 17:40:05 <Dokujisan> soul81: ?
+ Mar 04 17:40:18 <Dokujisan> from netherlands?
+ Mar 04 17:40:18 * soul81 is now known as SoulKeeper_p
+ Mar 04 17:40:20 <SoulKeeper_p> ;)
+ Mar 04 17:40:20 <Dokujisan> ahhh
+ Mar 04 17:40:33 <Dokujisan> <Dokujisan> here is the entire chat since I joine #notnexuiz yesterday
+ Mar 04 17:40:33 <Dokujisan> <Dokujisan> http://www.nullgaming.com/stuff/notnexuiz.log
+ Mar 04 17:40:47 <Dokujisan> a lot of reading...so I suggest just skimming
+ Mar 04 17:40:58 <SoulKeeper_p> tnx Dokujisan
+ Mar 04 17:41:19 <SoulKeeper_p> tZork, just poked me, thought join chan
+ Mar 04 17:41:26 <DibTop> Dokujisan: make it the topic
+ Mar 04 17:41:30 * Dokujisan has changed the topic to: here is most of the conversation so far -- http://www.nullgaming.com/stuff/notnexuiz.log
+ Mar 04 17:56:51 <Dokujisan> the interesting part for me starts at Mar 04 06:19:44
+ Mar 04 18:04:58 <tZork> will have to continiue reading tomorrow, work in 5h, and i better try n get some sleep first.
+ Mar 04 18:05:50 <Dokujisan> k, cya
+ Mar 04 18:15:55 * tZork is now known as tZork|gone
+ Mar 04 18:43:19 <CuBe0wL> what about esteel?
+ Mar 04 18:43:31 <CuBe0wL> he was a major contributor too
+ Mar 04 18:43:46 <CuBe0wL> I think we'd need to invite him here too
+ Mar 04 18:44:01 <morphed> yeah
+ Mar 04 18:46:49 <[-z-]> nexion, nexotic, xenux, zenux are mine out of your last list Dokujisan
+ Mar 04 18:47:09 <Dokujisan> k
+ Mar 04 18:48:00 <[-z-]> Dokujisan: are you in darkplaces?
+ Mar 04 18:48:07 <[-z-]> #darkplaces
+ Mar 04 18:48:08 <Dokujisan> the channel? no
+ Mar 04 18:48:11 <[-z-]> ah
+ Mar 04 18:48:12 <[-z-]> hold
+ Mar 04 18:48:21 <Dokujisan> should I be?
+ Mar 04 18:48:59 <[-z-]> probably
+ Mar 04 18:48:59 <Taoki> Any news about the name? Do we have a top 4-5-6 yet?
+ Mar 04 18:49:00 <[-z-]> on anynet
+ Mar 04 18:49:13 <[-z-]> http://pastie.org/854774
+ Mar 04 18:49:28 <Dokujisan> omg diablo
+ Mar 04 18:49:32 <Dokujisan> I'm not a fan of his
+ Mar 04 18:50:02 <[-z-]> there is more log too if you'd like
+ Mar 04 18:50:05 <[-z-]> some interesting stuff is said
+ Mar 04 18:51:34 <Dokujisan> eh, if it involves diablo, I probably don't want to read it
+ Mar 04 18:51:35 <Dokujisan> heh
+ Mar 04 18:51:41 <[-z-]> http://pastie.org/854777 nope
+ Mar 04 18:54:16 <Dokujisan> [12:59:23 pm] <LordHavoc> div0: I share the theory that it will boost popularity of existing Nexuiz
+ Mar 04 18:54:17 <Dokujisan> yikes!
+ Mar 04 18:55:24 <Taoki> It's not impossible.
+ Mar 04 18:56:23 <Dokujisan> They own that name now. The game we know and play as Nexuiz is an asterisk
+ Mar 04 18:56:45 <[-z-]> omg that's a great name :-P
+ Mar 04 18:56:46 <[-z-]> Nexuiz*
+ Mar 04 18:56:52 <Dokujisan> :-)
+ Mar 04 18:57:50 <Taoki> Apart from the popularity loss, I kinda have the feeling it was after all just a name. It doesn't change anything that we see while we play, so Nexuiz is still Nexuiz to me.
+ Mar 04 18:58:06 <Dokujisan> the name is a lot
+ Mar 04 18:58:13 <[-z-]> yes but that mangled name was ours
+ Mar 04 18:58:14 <Dokujisan> that should not be underestimated
+ Mar 04 18:58:25 <[-z-]> and we all worked together to build what it represents
+ Mar 04 18:58:30 <Dokujisan> We invested our time to build up that name
+ Mar 04 18:58:31 <[-z-]> and this new image does not represent us
+ Mar 04 18:58:39 <Taoki> Well, it does also mean a lot in the sense that... we are used to it so it's like loosing something we cared for
+ Mar 04 18:58:49 <[-z-]> but our rolling stone of a father has tried to tell us this is what we need
+ Mar 04 18:59:21 <Dokujisan> vermeulen certainly did nothing to build up that name. In selling the name (directly or indirectly), he sold our effort and investment in the name
+ Mar 04 18:59:29 <morphed> if we change name, we have milions of players that downloaded nexuiz and didnt liked it back then
+ Mar 04 18:59:35 <Dokujisan> and we now lose that which we helped build up
+ Mar 04 19:00:05 <Taoki> I can't ignore the fact that if it wasn't for Vermeulen, Nexuiz wouldn't have existed, however.
+ Mar 04 19:00:10 <morphed> they might download new game because they dont know its old nexuiz
+ Mar 04 19:00:13 <Dokujisan> yes, starting over....especially with the backstory of a failed GPL project, can attract a flood of new players ....if we do it properly
+ Mar 04 19:00:36 <Dokujisan> this fork would attract a lot of attention
+ Mar 04 19:00:39 <Dokujisan> or could
+ Mar 04 19:00:40 <morphed> and by millions i mean actual numbers from sourceforge downloads :)
+ Mar 04 19:00:40 <[-z-]> Taoki: but perhaps another game would have
+ Mar 04 19:00:47 <Dokujisan> brb....food
+ Mar 04 19:01:49 <Taoki> I'm confused as to why this is called a fork. Wouldn't it be a fork if we split it into two projects?
+ Mar 04 19:02:01 <Taoki> Im rather seeing it as a renaming
+ Mar 04 19:02:14 <[-z-]> the future of the alientrap AT is unknown
+ Mar 04 19:02:20 <[-z-]> at nexuiz*
+ Mar 04 19:03:02 <Taoki> Oh... there might still be one? I thought it's just this Nexuiz getting renamed. That would be bad... there would be two GPL Nexuizes
+ Mar 04 19:03:18 <[-z-]> well, it would likely die if we fork
+ Mar 04 19:03:28 <[-z-]> unless vermeulen finds a new team
+ Mar 04 19:04:12 <Taoki> yeah. Two GPL Nexuizes would be a horrible idea imo.
+ Mar 04 19:04:26 <[-z-]> well this would be a different game
+ Mar 04 19:04:45 <[-z-]> sounds like a lot of people want to take the opportunity to streamline some things
+ Mar 04 19:04:57 <Taoki> Of course, if Vermeulen may wish to do a fock himself to still maintain a GPL Nexuiz of his own, with a team of his own, that would be his choice. Though it would hurt everything badly.
+ Mar 04 19:05:03 <Taoki> *fork
+ Mar 04 19:05:14 <[-z-]> I doubt he'd have the interest
+ Mar 04 19:05:18 <Taoki> I hope it son't be the case
+ Mar 04 19:05:20 <Taoki> yeah
+ Mar 04 19:05:25 <[-z-]> except only to try and defend his honor
+ Mar 04 19:05:31 <[-z-]> but doing so might even make it worse
+ Mar 04 19:05:53 <[-z-]> There are enough people that feel like the captain abandoned them
+ Mar 04 19:06:04 <Taoki> Yeah, most of us do.
+ Mar 04 19:06:18 <[-z-]> div0: is it true that Vermeulen paid you?
+ Mar 04 19:07:27 <[-z-]> http://alientrap.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6047&start=0#p76262
+ Mar 04 19:08:43 <[-z-]> depending on how vermeulen can spin this PR disaster we might not even have to split
+ Mar 04 19:10:09 <Taoki> I hope he doesnt own the alientrap.com website, or the forum
+ Mar 04 19:13:51 <DibTop> the name should be DiaboliK really :P
+ Mar 04 19:14:28 <DibTop> did someone suggest Phoenix?
+ Mar 04 19:14:48 <Taoki> Something similar
+ Mar 04 19:14:53 <Taoki> yeah, that too
+ Mar 04 19:15:51 <Taoki> I'm curious about the name. Is there any plan as to when it is decided, or a top with the best names for now?
+ Mar 04 19:18:40 <Samual> DiaboliK as a name wouldn't suck actually :P
+ Mar 04 19:18:45 <Samual> lawl
+ Mar 04 19:18:51 <Samual> It's better than some of the other stuff
+ Mar 04 19:23:10 <Dokujisan> whatever happens with the name, and I was saying this yesterday, we should take some time to pick the proper name
+ Mar 04 19:23:12 <Dokujisan> we have some time
+ Mar 04 19:27:02 <Dokujisan> nexion, nexotic
+ Mar 04 19:27:11 <Dokujisan> nexion is sorta taken already in gaming
+ Mar 04 19:27:22 <Dokujisan> and nexon
+ Mar 04 19:27:34 <Dokujisan> but nexotic doesn't have anything game-related that I can find
+ Mar 04 19:28:06 <Dokujisan> an I found a clan naned team nexotic
+ Mar 04 19:28:28 <Dokujisan> a dance crew named nexotic :-)
+ Mar 04 19:29:03 <Taoki> Not sure on Nexotic here. Would be a good name though
+ Mar 04 19:30:18 <Dokujisan> I like the idea of making a game where we can create a new symbol for it
+ Mar 04 19:30:56 <Samual> I like Nexotic
+ Mar 04 19:31:09 <Dokujisan> what about Nexodic?
+ Mar 04 19:31:15 <Dokujisan> I like the 't' better
+ Mar 04 19:31:22 <Dokujisan> what about Nexilus?
+ Mar 04 19:31:23 <Samual> t is better imo
+ Mar 04 19:31:31 <Samual> Nexilus is too similar :X
+ Mar 04 19:31:44 <Samual> nexotic.org is available
+ Mar 04 19:31:46 <Samual> btw
+ Mar 04 19:31:52 <Dokujisan> yeah... we discussed our planning for this
+ Mar 04 19:31:59 <Dokujisan> Plan A is to aim for an avialable .com
+ Mar 04 19:32:06 <Samual> Yeah
+ Mar 04 19:32:07 <Dokujisan> plan B is to consider .coms that are taken
+ Mar 04 19:32:54 <Dokujisan> I like the look of a lot of the names beginning with "x"
+ Mar 04 19:33:02 <Dokujisan> but the pronunciation is trickier
+ Mar 04 19:33:10 <Dokujisan> like xodius or something
+ Mar 04 19:33:15 <Dokujisan> xenotic
+ Mar 04 19:33:40 <Dokujisan> and it's like a backwards of 'nex'
+ Mar 04 19:33:45 <Dokujisan> 'xen'
+ Mar 04 19:34:47 <Taoki> I already picked the ones i support. http://pastebin.com/nWkJF7TD
+ Mar 04 19:35:17 <Dokujisan> ya I have those
+ Mar 04 19:35:31 <DibTop> ziuxen
+ Mar 04 19:35:46 <Dokujisan> you really liked nexvium?
+ Mar 04 19:35:47 <Dokujisan> heh
+ Mar 04 19:36:00 <Taoki> Not a lot, but it sounds acceptable
+ Mar 04 19:36:10 <Taoki> its one of my least favorites from there
+ Mar 04 19:36:46 <Dokujisan> nexolus is too...weak sounding?
+ Mar 04 19:37:02 <Dokujisan> I think that's what div0 said
+ Mar 04 19:37:07 <Dokujisan> using the 'L' sound
+ Mar 04 19:37:58 * mand1nga (ba88357b@webchat.mibbit.com) has joined #notnexuiz
+ Mar 04 19:38:05 <Dokujisan> mand1nga!
+ Mar 04 19:38:15 <mand1nga> Mr Dokujisan !
+ Mar 04 19:38:21 <mand1nga> nice to see you man
+ Mar 04 19:38:23 <Dokujisan> read the link in the topic if you want. It's lengthy
+ Mar 04 19:38:26 <Samual> Ello, mand1nga
+ Mar 04 19:38:32 <mand1nga> hey Samual
+ Mar 04 19:38:35 <mand1nga> alright
+ Mar 04 19:38:52 <mand1nga> I've exchanged a few words with Lee today
+ Mar 04 19:39:13 <Dokujisan> heh
+ Mar 04 19:40:04 <mand1nga> nothing relevant, just .. knowing the enemy ;)
+ Mar 04 19:40:18 <DibTop> Phoenix make it Phoinex
+ Mar 04 19:40:32 <DibTop> thats a bit weird though
+ Mar 04 19:40:49 <mand1nga> http://pastebin.com/pjqt20YN
+ Mar 04 19:40:51 <Dokujisan> I'm not keen on phoenix. that name is overplayed by now
+ Mar 04 19:41:22 <Dokujisan> I like it having a name that really has no meaning, a made up word
+ Mar 04 19:41:38 <mand1nga> I have the name
+ Mar 04 19:41:45 * mand1nga <-
+ Mar 04 19:41:46 <mand1nga> :>
+ Mar 04 19:43:24 <Dokujisan> ugh.. I read comments made by vermeulen and the illfonic guy and Lordhavoc and it seems like you can't get through to them
+ Mar 04 19:43:30 <Dokujisan> and it's also too late, imo
+ Mar 04 19:43:35 <Dokujisan> what's done is done
+ Mar 04 19:44:11 <Dokujisan> I mean he can't undo it
+ Mar 04 19:44:15 <Dokujisan> there are contracts
+ Mar 04 19:44:34 <mand1nga> well, that'd be a big problem for them
+ Mar 04 19:44:48 <Taoki> I'm at peace with the idea we'll be continuing under a new name.
+ Mar 04 19:44:56 <mand1nga> imho they can't handle the amount of bad press that is coming
+ Mar 04 19:45:05 <Dokujisan> I'm more than at peace. I'm actually excited for it.
+ Mar 04 19:45:06 <Taoki> The only thing I worry about now is a fork of Nexuiz GPL. That would destroy everything.
+ Mar 04 19:45:24 <Dokujisan> This would be a fork of Nexiuz GPL
+ Mar 04 19:45:27 <mand1nga> I think the commercial version will be dead even before reaching the shelves, like I said before
+ Mar 04 19:45:41 <Taoki> A fork as in, 2 projects continuing fro it
+ Mar 04 19:45:49 <[-z-]> I don't think there is anything to worry about as long as we organize ourselves and our resources properly
+ Mar 04 19:46:00 <[-z-]> improve where the project needs improving and better distribute power
+ Mar 04 19:46:32 <mand1nga> I see those are separated issues 1) the future of GPL nexuiz and 2) do something against LV disrepectful/unlawful actions
+ Mar 04 19:46:35 <Dokujisan> I like everything that's been said so far in this channel since I joined
+ Mar 04 19:46:54 <Dokujisan> LV?
+ Mar 04 19:46:58 <[-z-]> lee vermeulen
+ Mar 04 19:47:00 <Dokujisan> oh
+ Mar 04 19:47:16 <mand1nga> it seems he is the only one to blame
+ Mar 04 19:47:27 <Dokujisan> lordhavoc played a role
+ Mar 04 19:47:37 <Dokujisan> and regardless of what lee says, I still blame illfonic somewhat
+ Mar 04 19:47:39 <[-z-]> different said he never really gave explicity permission to LH
+ Mar 04 19:47:39 <mand1nga> yes, a minor one imho, but still
+ Mar 04 19:47:47 <[-z-]> he said it was more a "I might sell this one day" sort of thing
+ Mar 04 19:47:55 <[-z-]> he definitely didn't know about the name thing
+ Mar 04 19:48:39 <mand1nga> I just can't stand the fact that div0 was kept out of this, I never seen such a lack of respect/manners before
+ Mar 04 19:48:41 <Samual> I didn't know about the name being the same
+ Mar 04 19:48:46 <Samual> However, I knew about the project
+ Mar 04 19:49:06 <[-z-]> how long ago?
+ Mar 04 19:49:07 <Samual> I've known about it for quite a while too :X
+ Mar 04 19:49:13 <Samual> Since I got commit access to Nexuiz
+ Mar 04 19:49:13 * morphed has quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
+ Mar 04 19:49:26 <[-z-]> who told you? LH?
+ Mar 04 19:49:27 <Taoki> To me, Illfonic and Vermeulen are equally guilty
+ Mar 04 19:49:35 <Samual> LordHavoc confronted me about it, -z-
+ Mar 04 19:49:41 <[-z-]> I figured
+ Mar 04 19:49:47 <mand1nga> acces to nexuiz or dp?
+ Mar 04 19:49:51 <[-z-]> and no one told div??
+ Mar 04 19:49:52 <Samual> Nexuiz
+ Mar 04 19:49:52 <Dokujisan> well div0 was told about a console port, but he didn't know that it was not going to be benefitting the current Nexuiz and that it would be a completely different game...and of course the use of the name
+ Mar 04 19:49:55 <Samual> I had DP earlier
+ Mar 04 19:50:02 <Samual> -z-: I thought he knew
+ Mar 04 19:50:04 <mand1nga> wow thats crazy
+ Mar 04 19:50:19 <Samual> If not, he figured it out for the most part
+ Mar 04 19:50:29 <Samual> If you look at the commit log, pay attention to most of the GL changes
+ Mar 04 19:50:38 <[-z-]> anyone ever remember a fund raiser for divVerent sponsored by Lee???
+ Mar 04 19:50:38 <mand1nga> got to go, ttyl
+ Mar 04 19:50:50 <mand1nga> you have all my support guys
+ Mar 04 19:50:52 <Samual> -z-: No, but i've only been here since 2.4.2
+ Mar 04 19:50:59 <mand1nga> (coming from the l!ft team)
+ Mar 04 19:51:02 <[-z-]> that's another thing he claimed in his reply to my ill comment about where the donations were going
+ Mar 04 19:51:02 <mand1nga> later.
+ Mar 04 19:51:08 <[-z-]> bye mand1nga
+ Mar 04 19:51:28 <Dokujisan> thanks mand1nga!
+ Mar 04 19:52:53 <Samual> Anyway I wasn't aware that they were using our game code either
+ Mar 04 19:53:03 <Samual> I just thought they were using the engine and that's it
+ Mar 04 19:53:11 <Dokujisan> that might be true still
+ Mar 04 19:53:14 <Samual> No
+ Mar 04 19:53:18 <Dokujisan> oh?
+ Mar 04 19:53:30 <Taoki> They use parts of the gamecode too. I spotted at least the ghost items, and other users confirmed
+ Mar 04 19:53:58 <Samual> That doesn't necessarily need our gamecode, they could've just taken the feature idea
+ Mar 04 19:54:01 <Samual> Which, i'm fine with
+ Mar 04 19:54:09 <Samual> I'm also upset that they're only doing 2 game modes
+ Mar 04 19:54:14 <Samual> AND THEY'RE REMOVING DEATHMATCH....
+ Mar 04 19:54:16 <[-z-]> I don't trust anyone that makes an all flash website
+ Mar 04 19:54:45 <Samual> Listen, you don't remove deathmatch from a game which was originally designed to BE a deathmatch game
+ Mar 04 19:54:58 <[-z-]> rm deathmatch
+ Mar 04 19:55:06 <Samual> Bitch you forgot permissions
+ Mar 04 19:55:06 <[-z-]> rm -f deathmatch
+ Mar 04 19:55:14 <Samual> -.-
+ Mar 04 19:55:24 <[-z-]> chown z deathmatch && rm -vf deathmatch
+ Mar 04 19:55:36 <Taoki> I agree. Removing deathmatch is something more stupid than concievable. Its the main gametype
+ Mar 04 19:55:36 <Samual> Fine.
+ Mar 04 19:55:47 <[-z-]> I'd play a CTF only game
+ Mar 04 19:55:53 <[-z-]> but I'd want it to be crazy style ZTF :-P
+ Mar 04 19:56:02 <[-z-]> that is multiple flags with multiple values
+ Mar 04 19:56:05 <Samual> That and they won't add Keyhunt or any other game modes which could be very successful
+ Mar 04 19:56:20 <[-z-]> ZTF Fortress is the future! :-P
+ Mar 04 19:56:23 <Samual> I personally would want LMS in there :P
+ Mar 04 19:56:38 <Samual> I bet you LMS could be fun when the server is constantly full :P
+ Mar 04 19:56:54 <[-z-]> the world may never know
+ Mar 04 19:57:07 <Samual> Actually it could be calculated
+ Mar 04 19:57:19 <Dokujisan> ok I need to sleep....but I'm excited for this thing now.
+ Mar 04 19:57:30 <Dokujisan> so please keep the momentum going
+ Mar 04 19:57:34 <Samual> lawl
+ Mar 04 19:57:45 <[-z-]> take care Dokujisan
+ Mar 04 19:57:50 <Dokujisan> cya
+ Mar 04 19:57:53 <Samual> Cya
+ Mar 04 19:58:15 <Samual> But honestly I would be fine with this whole thing if their company did 2 things:
+ Mar 04 19:58:20 <Samual> Actually.. 3.
+ Mar 04 19:58:44 <Samual> #1: Change the name to something else... We're the ones with the community who built up the name, we're the ones who want to keep it.
+ Mar 04 19:59:33 <Samual> #2: Credit all contributors of code and content that they used in the game. (That does mean in the game credits itself)
+ Mar 04 20:00:15 <Samual> #3: Take heed of the more important things to the community and listen to their opinions about what they want to do with the game.
+ Mar 04 20:00:37 <[-z-]> They already have the "we're better than you, we're saving you, the future is awesome, you don't even know" attitude...
+ Mar 04 20:00:39 <Samual> ........... Like me with being upset about only having TDM and CTF :P
+ Mar 04 20:00:41 <[-z-]> so goodluck :-P
+ Mar 04 20:01:07 <Samual> Actually
+ Mar 04 20:01:13 <Samual> All of that................... OR.......................
+ Mar 04 20:01:15 <[-z-]> we are so honored to have old school quake players who might have played nexuiz once or twice buy out game
+ Mar 04 20:01:18 <Samual> They give us all their artwork.
+ Mar 04 20:01:19 <[-z-]> our*
+ Mar 04 20:01:20 <Samual> ^_^
+ Mar 04 20:01:21 <Samual> ^_^
+ Mar 04 20:01:30 <Samual> I want their fucking artwork damnit
+ Mar 04 20:01:31 <Samual> >.>
+ Mar 04 20:01:32 <[-z-]> yeah, I can't believe they've been such jerks about content too
+ Mar 04 20:01:34 <[-z-]> well
+ Mar 04 20:01:38 <[-z-]> as I said to div in pm
+ Mar 04 20:01:46 <[-z-]> even if they just made us a few new models for our game
+ Mar 04 20:01:51 <[-z-]> it would appease the crowd
+ Mar 04 20:02:02 <Samual> Indeed
+ Mar 04 20:02:04 <Samual> Well
+ Mar 04 20:02:08 <Samual> I want that style :P
+ Mar 04 20:02:16 <[-z-]> severance pk3
+ Mar 04 20:02:19 <[-z-]> harrr
+ Mar 04 20:02:25 <Samual> Listen, the style they went for with the artwork is what i've always wanted from Nexuiz
+ Mar 04 20:02:33 <Samual> When I dream of Nexuiz, that's what I see
+ Mar 04 20:02:34 <Samual> :P
+ Mar 04 20:02:35 <Samual> :P
+ Mar 04 20:02:39 <[-z-]> samual is in loooooove, samual is in loooooove
+ Mar 04 20:02:44 <Samual> Bullshit
+ Mar 04 20:02:46 <Samual> But well
+ Mar 04 20:02:47 <[-z-]> lol
+ Mar 04 20:02:51 <CuBe0wL> gn
+ Mar 04 20:02:55 <Samual> Seriously, that artwork is awesome.
+ Mar 04 20:02:56 <[-z-]> nice CuBe0wL
+ Mar 04 20:03:01 <Samual> gn CuBe0wL
+ Mar 04 20:03:06 <Samual> nite*?
+ Mar 04 20:03:33 <[-z-]> nite*
+ Mar 04 20:03:35 <[-z-]> :)
+ Mar 04 20:03:37 <Samual> ^_^
+ Mar 04 20:04:43 <Samual> Anyway, those things happening are what would stop me from leaving Alientrap
+ Mar 04 20:05:09 <[-z-]> yeah
+ Mar 04 20:05:26 <[-z-]> well Vermeulen said that he cares more about getting the name of alientrap out there than to get the name changed
+ Mar 04 20:05:34 <[-z-]> but he already signed the contract
+ Mar 04 20:05:43 <[-z-]> so... I think it's too late for conditions
+ Mar 04 20:05:57 <Samual> Well
+ Mar 04 20:06:03 <Samual> Can't IllFonic still change the name?
+ Mar 04 20:06:08 <[-z-]> lol
+ Mar 04 20:06:14 <[-z-]> they've already stated they will not
+ Mar 04 20:06:17 <[-z-]> and to basically stfu about it
+ Mar 04 20:06:23 <Samual> So?
+ Mar 04 20:06:32 <Dokujisan> let it go :-P
+ Mar 04 20:06:44 <[-z-]> so do you hit mario blocks when they question mark is already gone?
+ Mar 04 20:06:47 <Samual> Fine... Meh i'm goin out for a bit
+ Mar 04 20:06:51 <Samual> HEY WAIT A SECOND
+ Mar 04 20:06:54 <Samual> DIDN'T YOU GO TO BED?
+ Mar 04 20:06:58 <Samual> ^_^
+ Mar 04 20:07:07 <Dokujisan> I was awoken by your heart breaking
+ Mar 04 20:07:08 <[-z-]> he's sleep ircing
+ Mar 04 20:07:13 <Dokujisan> the sound of your heart breaking
+ Mar 04 20:07:22 <Samual> Lies
+ Mar 04 20:07:28 <Dokujisan> and I thought I heard whimpering
+ Mar 04 20:07:34 <Dokujisan> and I didn't realize IRC had sound support
+ Mar 04 20:07:49 <[-z-]> rythmic ascii
+ Mar 04 20:08:02 <[-z-]> beep boop bop beep boop
+ Mar 04 20:08:03 <Samual> Anyway, bbiab
+ Mar 04 20:08:04 <Dokujisan> ok really now....sleep
+ Mar 04 20:08:12 <Samual> gn Doku :P
+ Mar 04 20:08:17 <[-z-]> who wants to play Nexuiz*?
+ Mar 04 20:08:31 <Samual> Hmm
+ Mar 04 20:08:40 <Samual> That may just be enough to keep me here
+ Mar 04 20:08:43 <Samual> :P
+ Mar 04 20:08:47 <[-z-]> I'll be jumping around with a bunch of ho's chasing a flag
+ Mar 04 20:08:48 <Samual> Where?
+ Mar 04 20:09:07 <Samual> Hmm well, maybe i'll join in some time
+ Mar 04 20:09:17 <Samual> ^_^
+ Mar 04 20:26:41 * [-z-] gives channel operator status to CuBe0wL DibTop FruitieX
+ Mar 04 20:26:42 * [-z-] gives channel operator status to mand1nga SoulKeeper_p tZork|gone
+ Mar 04 20:26:44 * [-z-] gives channel operator status to }-z-{
+ Mar 04 20:47:28 <[-z-]> nexyes.com AVAILABLE
+ Mar 04 20:53:25 * TVR (~TVR@96.49.107.196) has joined #notnexuiz
+ Mar 04 20:55:40 <TVR> Good to see that this cause is gaining more and more support
+ Mar 04 20:56:11 <Taoki> Hi TVR. Yeah, indeed
+ Mar 04 21:10:02 <Taoki> bed time here. See you all tomorrow
+ Mar 04 21:12:36 <TVR> Later.
+ Mar 04 21:13:56 <[-z-]> goodnight
+ Mar 04 21:26:36 * Taoki has quit (Ping timeout: 364 seconds)
+ Mar 04 22:34:22 <[-z-]> I just need to vent that I have contributed 5 websites to alientrap and managed many web related things under the name and was not informed a single bit about this information. Not even that the website was getting hiacked, I mean sold.
+ Mar 04 22:36:14 <[-z-]> I really feel like lee could have worked out a better deal on this part
+ Mar 04 23:54:39 <TVR> [-z-]: Economic recession, maybe he needs to money to pay his credit card debt, heh
+ Mar 05 00:09:53 <FruitieX> 23:38:00 <@Dokujisan> basically, I hope to become an official community organizer in that regard
+ Mar 05 00:09:57 <FruitieX> 23:38:39 <@Dokujisan> "official" being key here. When things are left to be done by only the community, there is a disadvantage. If things are done from the top down, a lot more momentum can be achieved.
+ Mar 05 00:10:01 <FruitieX> sounds good :)
+ Mar 05 00:10:47 <FruitieX> 23:41:01 <@Dokujisan> well really the community is likely to come along with us
+ Mar 05 00:10:57 <FruitieX> their other choice is to stick with 2.5.2 (or svn) :P
+ Mar 05 00:12:32 <FruitieX> 23:48:47 < tZork> basicaly just briging along some ideas, both art and code are to be re-built to adress the large issue of legacy bagage nexuiz suffers from.
+ Mar 05 00:12:35 <FruitieX> :)
+ Mar 05 00:15:03 <FruitieX> Also, we need CSQC players. (even though that seems to be impossible/ridiculously hard etc)
+ Mar 05 00:15:14 <FruitieX> 00:01:55 <@Dokujisan> yes we did discuss new player models
+ Mar 05 00:15:14 <FruitieX> 00:02:16 <@Dokujisan> and a new set of default maps
+ Mar 05 00:15:17 <FruitieX> both: absolutely
+ Mar 05 00:15:34 <DibTop> FruitieX> Also, we need CSQC players. (even though that seems to be impossible/ridiculously hard etc)
+ Mar 05 00:15:44 <DibTop> lordhavoc said hes gonna work on that when he gets the chance
+ Mar 05 00:15:57 <FruitieX> 00:09:30 <@Taoki> http://alientrap.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=6054 =P
+ Mar 05 00:16:00 <FruitieX> hahahha
+ Mar 05 00:20:02 <FruitieX> 00:22:41 <@Taoki> As for informing the masses, I spoke about that with div0 yesterday (we all did on the channel iirc). We can make a new csprogs and put it on servers, that will inform about this
+ Mar 05 00:20:06 <FruitieX> Good.
+ Mar 05 00:20:25 <FruitieX> As for servers... I have a few
+ Mar 05 00:20:37 <FruitieX> But I'd prefer them to stay Nexrun, which means we need a proper mod system... :P
+ Mar 05 00:20:46 <FruitieX> Or maybe replace the Havoc button ;) ;) ;)
+ Mar 05 00:20:58 <FruitieX> "ChallengeMode"? :P
+ Mar 05 00:21:27 <TVR> We should donate Havoc mode to Illfonic
+ Mar 05 00:21:29 <FruitieX> 00:23:31 < tZork> <CuBe0wL> Pheonix
+ Mar 05 00:21:37 <FruitieX> +1, good luck getting a domain for that though
+ Mar 05 00:23:38 <TVR> FruitieX: 2.5.3 isn't coming anytime soon, is the water bug fixed in SVN?
+ Mar 05 00:24:06 <TVR> Otherwise, we'll have to revert back to 2.5...
+ Mar 05 00:27:08 <FruitieX> lol, water bug was fixed maybe a week after releasing 2.5.2 TVR
+ Mar 05 00:27:30 <TVR> ... and the hotfix is taking this long?
+ Mar 05 00:29:24 <DibTop> they dont have a stable engine to release yet
+ Mar 05 00:30:58 <FruitieX> 01:59:52 < morphed> if we change name, we have milions of players that downloaded nexuiz and didnt liked it back then
+ Mar 05 00:31:04 <FruitieX> Good point, BTW.
+ Mar 05 00:31:20 <FruitieX> If the name is less confusing, many of these might not be scared off to try it out again :P
+ Mar 05 00:32:08 <FruitieX> IMO we should be removing (or at least make sure about revamping) old maps which use the e* (not eX) textures
+ Mar 05 00:32:55 <FruitieX> Possibly making many new textures from photos (e.g. burningwell is a public domain site for that, or just snap yer own), this is basically what I did for stormkeep2 floor and walls
+ Mar 05 00:33:17 <FruitieX> (still reading backlog btw, cant see what you're posting ;))
+ Mar 05 00:34:44 <FruitieX> 02:05:21 <@Taoki> Of course, if Vermeulen may wish to do a fock himself to still maintain a GPL Nexuiz of his own, with a team of his own, that would be his choice. Though it would hurt everything badly.
+ Mar 05 00:34:48 <FruitieX> 02:05:26 <@Taoki> *fork
+ Mar 05 00:34:51 <FruitieX> This could sure be bad yes, but I doubt he'd do that
+ Mar 05 00:35:02 <FruitieX> Also, if it's GPL'd, we can take over his changes (and vice versa) :P
+ Mar 05 00:36:16 <FruitieX> No matter what happens... Unless illfonic decides to change name/stop working on console Nexuiz we should change the name IMO
+ Mar 05 00:41:08 <FruitieX> oooh only 3 pages left :P
+ Mar 05 00:41:23 <FruitieX> 07:28:05 < TVR> ... and the hotfix is taking this long?
+ Mar 05 00:41:28 <FruitieX> Yeah, it never happened
+ Mar 05 00:41:36 <FruitieX> There was change after change after change
+ Mar 05 00:41:50 <FruitieX> waiting for one change to mature, then there's another change
+ Mar 05 00:41:55 <FruitieX> I guess that's pretty much what happened
+ Mar 05 00:42:18 <FruitieX> and look what we ended up with, warpzones, somewhat fixed black edges on water etc etc
+ Mar 05 00:42:26 <FruitieX> new decal system
+ Mar 05 00:42:30 <TVR> Unfortunately, it killed the player base.
+ Mar 05 00:42:46 <TVR> Used to be 150 players at peak, now it's around 90
+ Mar 05 00:42:49 <FruitieX> yep might as well be
+ Mar 05 00:43:19 <TVR> What are warpzones again? I don't have flash
+ Mar 05 00:43:37 <FruitieX> Wow, you didn't hear about them?
+ Mar 05 00:43:48 <FruitieX> They are like teleporters, except seamless ones
+ Mar 05 00:43:53 <TVR> Are they portal cams, or actual portals from portal?
+ Mar 05 00:43:57 <FruitieX> Just like portals in Valve's portal
+ Mar 05 00:44:01 <FruitieX> actual portals
+ Mar 05 00:44:13 <TVR> How does reorientation work?
+ Mar 05 00:44:19 <FruitieX> Except they can be as big as the mapper wants, as invisible as the mappers want
+ Mar 05 00:44:36 <FruitieX> TVR: There's an entity in the warpzones that set the orientation
+ Mar 05 00:44:48 <FruitieX> the warpzone killtargets this one iirc
+ Mar 05 00:45:28 <TVR> Oh this reminds me of Darkplaces' inability to support vertical model movement
+ Mar 05 00:45:38 <FruitieX> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-8atWDlfhY
+ Mar 05 00:45:52 <FruitieX> yep, in this video you will see
+ Mar 05 00:46:12 <FruitieX> how the player view is always reoriented so the player will stand up straight after jumping into a warpzone
+ Mar 05 00:46:46 <TVR> Remember, I don't have flash...
+ Mar 05 00:47:50 <TVR> btw, does this http://alientrap.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6019&p=76283#p76283 demonstrate Darkplaces to the non-English speaking?
+ Mar 05 00:50:24 <FruitieX> Oh, don't have flash?
+ Mar 05 00:50:51 <TVR> Yep, Gnash doesn't work for Youtube
+ Mar 05 00:51:18 <FruitieX> haha nice demonstration x)
+ Mar 05 00:51:21 <FruitieX> that should be fixed BTW
+ Mar 05 00:51:32 <FruitieX> case we get new playermodels, they really need to be able to move their upper body
+ Mar 05 00:51:56 <TVR> I wonder how Illfonic is dealing with that.
+ Mar 05 00:52:26 <TVR> Is this just a Big Rigs style cash grab?
+ Mar 05 00:52:29 <FruitieX> That's done in QC
+ Mar 05 00:53:00 <TVR> Segmented models?
+ Mar 05 00:53:09 <FruitieX> but really, the way it should be fixed is simply, yep, segmented models
+ Mar 05 00:53:17 <FruitieX> that coupled with what we already have, aiming the gun up/down
+ Mar 05 00:53:47 <TVR> You mean, the viewmodel of the gun?
+ Mar 05 00:54:12 <DibTop> i think before we have a new release we should create new playermodels and weapon models
+ Mar 05 00:55:46 <TVR> Let's skip 2.5.3, and head directly to a 3.0 fork
+ Mar 05 00:56:07 <FruitieX> DibTop: Yeah
+ Mar 05 00:56:16 <DibTop> or 2.6 or whatever
+ Mar 05 00:56:24 <DibTop> or just 1.0 with a different name
+ Mar 05 00:56:29 <FruitieX> Some playermodels are really nice, or let's say were really nice before the texture resolution of them was brought down...
+ Mar 05 00:56:48 <DibTop> im working on animating GAK by oblivion
+ Mar 05 00:57:33 <TVR> If all else fails, we can always fall back to pinkbox.
+ Mar 05 01:02:36 <FruitieX> Lol
+ Mar 05 01:02:54 <FruitieX> What really should be considered is high-res textures for everything
+ Mar 05 01:03:03 <FruitieX> Or well, models :P
+ Mar 05 01:03:36 <FruitieX> Players who don't have lots of VRAM have the option of reducing quality, even only for models (default option)
+ Mar 05 01:03:48 <FruitieX> could set gl_picmip 1 default, which I think it already is
+ Mar 05 01:04:49 <DibTop> they dont even need to do that
+ Mar 05 01:04:58 <DibTop> there is a command to reduce the quality of just playermodels
+ Mar 05 01:05:04 <DibTop> but i forget what it was
+ Mar 05 01:07:03 <DibTop> i want to animate obi's newest model too
+ Mar 05 01:07:08 <DibTop> or someone should
+ Mar 05 01:07:12 <DibTop> its really nice
+ Mar 05 01:20:29 <FruitieX> 08:05:35 <@DibTop> there is a command to reduce the quality of just playermodels
+ Mar 05 01:20:32 <FruitieX> thats what i meant
+ Mar 05 01:20:39 <FruitieX> it's not only playermodels afaik, it's all models
+ Mar 05 01:20:52 <DibTop> nope there is one to reduce it just for playermodels
+ Mar 05 01:20:57 <DibTop> i forgot i though
+ Mar 05 01:24:43 <FruitieX> cl_playerdetailreduction? (or whatever)
+ Mar 05 01:24:45 <FruitieX> for lod?
+ Mar 05 01:24:49 <FruitieX> that's not what i meant :P
+ Mar 05 01:25:18 <DibTop> maybe
+ Mar 05 01:25:20 <DibTop> i dont know
+ Mar 05 01:34:14 * FruitieX trying to convince Kedhrin to donate some motion caps 8)
+ Mar 05 01:35:13 <DibTop> not gonna happen
+ Mar 05 01:43:10 <FruitieX> TVR: warpzone! http://pics.nexuizninjaz.com/images/adpd7dnuhndv55pqhar.jpg
+ Mar 05 01:43:15 <FruitieX> BTW
+ Mar 05 01:43:21 <FruitieX> would like to have this map included :)
+ Mar 05 01:43:26 <FruitieX> in the possible fork
+ Mar 05 01:44:08 <FruitieX> http://pics.nexuizninjaz.com/images/44samcbugfwbl2swcmyu.jpg
+ Mar 05 01:52:42 <div0> [01:50:43] <@Samual> If not, he figured it out for the most part
+ Mar 05 01:52:43 <div0> [01:50:53] <@Samual> If you look at the commit log, pay attention to most of the GL changes
+ Mar 05 01:52:45 <div0> [01:51:01] <@[-z-]> anyone ever remember a fund raiser for divVerent sponsored by Lee???
+ Mar 05 01:52:55 <div0> no?
+ Mar 05 01:53:04 <div0> as for commit log: this hinted to a PS3 port of the engine
+ Mar 05 01:53:11 <div0> but NOT that nexuiz will be hijacked
+ Mar 05 01:53:33 <div0> [07:43:45] <@FruitieX> TVR: warpzone! http://pics.nexuizninjaz.com/images/adpd7dnuhndv55pqhar.jpg
+ Mar 05 01:53:36 <div0> does this get good fps?
+ Mar 05 01:53:40 <div0> asking, ebcause the map is open
+ Mar 05 01:53:55 <div0> but yes, good use of warpzone
+ Mar 05 01:54:09 <div0> nice idea to put a door threshold in there
+ Mar 05 01:54:14 <div0> makes the warpzone glitch way less visible :P
+ Mar 05 01:54:20 <div0> like, thelighting difference
+ Mar 05 01:54:51 <TVR> It's difficult to recognize when bloom or HDR is enabled
+ Mar 05 01:55:38 <TVR> Heh, do dynamic lights travel through warpzones as well?
+ Mar 05 01:55:39 <FruitieX> indeed div0 that was the point of adding it i'm sure
+ Mar 05 01:56:31 <FruitieX> TVR: dynamic lights don't travel through one, no
+ Mar 05 01:56:35 <FruitieX> neither do sounds
+ Mar 05 01:56:40 <TVR> How about hitscan?
+ Mar 05 01:56:47 <FruitieX> yep does travel through
+ Mar 05 01:56:49 <FruitieX> and projectiles
+ Mar 05 01:57:06 <TVR> Can it be one-way?
+ Mar 05 01:57:27 <FruitieX> not sure, at least before it couldn't
+ Mar 05 01:57:50 <FruitieX> you could of course do stuff like place a trigger_impulse on one side
+ Mar 05 01:57:54 <TVR> Because it wouldn't make sense to be standing on both sides, if it's only one way
+ Mar 05 01:57:55 <FruitieX> that pushes you away from it
+ Mar 05 01:58:10 <div0> TVR: one-way theoretically possible but I didn't support that from QC
+ Mar 05 01:58:13 <div0> do0n't want one-way :P
+ Mar 05 01:58:27 <FruitieX> also div0 it got pretty good fps yes
+ Mar 05 01:58:35 <div0> if you make your own QC code.. you can make it one-way :P
+ Mar 05 01:58:36 <FruitieX> 100 average on my laptop iirc
+ Mar 05 01:58:45 <FruitieX> after i removed the water on the middle, which was a real performance killer
+ Mar 05 01:58:51 <div0> ah
+ Mar 05 01:58:56 <div0> so it already HAD extra renders ;)
+ Mar 05 01:58:59 <FruitieX> yep :P
+ Mar 05 01:58:59 <div0> then it indeed doesn't get worse
+ Mar 05 01:59:28 <TVR> gn
+ Mar 05 01:59:41 * TVR has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.0.14/2009091913]")
+ Mar 05 02:13:54 <FruitieX> on my desktop i'm getting about 70 fps with reflections set to sharp
+ Mar 05 02:14:06 <FruitieX> other than that pretty much everything disabled (textures full though)
+ Mar 05 02:14:18 <FruitieX> nvidia 6600GT, 2.0GHz old sempron CPU (singlecore)
+ Mar 05 02:14:32 <FruitieX> it's a bit unstable though, which might be cause of having the browser up at the same time
+ Mar 05 02:15:51 <FruitieX> or maybe, it hasn't got enough VRAM and is swapping
+ Mar 05 02:16:11 <FruitieX> now it segfaulted x)
+ Mar 05 02:24:57 <div0> maybe I have to make warpzones and others be able to have different resolution
+ Mar 05 02:25:08 <div0> either that, or warpzone maps shall use r_water_resolutionmultiplier in mapifno
+ Mar 05 02:25:41 <div0> maybe it is good to allow them to have different resolutoion, for weaker hardware
+ Mar 05 02:45:59 <div0> in the new project
+ Mar 05 02:46:05 <div0> can we become incompatible to existing maps?
+ Mar 05 02:46:12 <div0> I'd like to remove the evil* texture sets
+ Mar 05 02:46:30 <div0> and repack existing custom maps to instead include the textures if they need them
+ Mar 05 02:46:42 <div0> basically, I'd like to only include high quality textures
+ Mar 05 02:47:47 <div0> basically: I think I will make a "nexiuz.git" repository that is like nexuiz.git but with certain parts removed (especially maps and textures)
+ Mar 05 02:47:54 <div0> will keep the models for now though
+ Mar 05 02:48:14 <div0> as for maps, will probbaly only include aggressor for a start, and tutorial
+ Mar 05 02:48:26 <div0> maybe dieselpower too
+ Mar 05 02:48:52 <div0> and then reinclude ONLY the shaders and textures from the evil sets that are missing
+ Mar 05 03:38:37 <FruitieX> 09:46:45 <@div0> can we become incompatible to existing maps?
+ Mar 05 03:38:37 <FruitieX> 09:46:52 <@div0> I'd like to remove the evil* texture sets
+ Mar 05 03:38:40 <FruitieX> i sure vote for this
+ Mar 05 03:39:46 <FruitieX> 09:48:54 <@div0> as for maps, will probbaly only include aggressor for a start, and tutorial
+ Mar 05 03:39:59 <FruitieX> What about stormkeep2? That one uses mostly my custom made textures and eX textures
+ Mar 05 03:40:41 <FruitieX> I'm ready to retexture a bunch of other favorites (soylent springs to mind immediately :))
+ Mar 05 03:41:05 <div0> oh right
+ Mar 05 03:41:08 <div0> stormkeep2 I forgot
+ Mar 05 03:41:14 <div0> but will first include NO maps, and then reinclude the ones I want
+ Mar 05 03:41:22 <div0> and yes... stormkeep2, maybe even with warpzone
+ Mar 05 03:41:28 <FruitieX> yes :)
+ Mar 05 03:41:32 <div0> even though I am not fully convinced about it yet
+ Mar 05 03:41:36 <FruitieX> hehe
+ Mar 05 03:41:37 <div0> maybe simply should make the warpzone more visible
+ Mar 05 03:41:42 <FruitieX> yes
+ Mar 05 03:41:46 <div0> like, with a Portal-like texture
+ Mar 05 03:41:46 <FruitieX> i have thought about this too
+ Mar 05 03:41:59 <FruitieX> yeah... or simply some shaderwork
+ Mar 05 03:42:00 <div0> not elliptic though, valve may own that :P
+ Mar 05 03:42:08 <div0> sure, thinking of both :P
+ Mar 05 03:42:17 <div0> on the borders, some blue and orange glow
+ Mar 05 03:42:22 <div0> otherwise, wavy transparent
+ Mar 05 03:42:23 <FruitieX> would adding a normalmap to it make it slower?
+ Mar 05 03:42:27 <div0> no
+ Mar 05 03:42:28 <FruitieX> like, need an extra render pass
+ Mar 05 03:42:29 <div0> same code anyway
+ Mar 05 03:42:32 <FruitieX> neat
+ Mar 05 03:42:33 <div0> it already needs the pass
+ Mar 05 03:42:37 <FruitieX> alright
+ Mar 05 03:42:42 <div0> but, it'd prevenmt future optimization :P
+ Mar 05 03:42:47 <FruitieX> oh :P
+ Mar 05 03:42:48 <FruitieX> hmm
+ Mar 05 03:42:52 <div0> if that ever happens anyway
+ Mar 05 03:43:05 <div0> I am not sure if iteven CAN be optimized in DP's renderer design
+ Mar 05 03:43:07 <div0> however...
+ Mar 05 03:43:17 <div0> I think, if it gets optimized, it'll be by a new dp_warpzone shader parametert
+ Mar 05 03:43:24 <div0> which would make a un-modifying warp
+ Mar 05 03:43:33 <div0> and not using dp_refract and dp_camera
+ Mar 05 03:43:49 <div0> this would optimize the common/warpzone shader
+ Mar 05 03:43:58 <div0> but not custom made shaders that you would use if ysou want to style it
+ Mar 05 03:44:16 <div0> so, basically: go ahead, and style it
+ Mar 05 03:44:50 <FruitieX> :P
+ Mar 05 03:45:23 <div0> the warpzones on gasoline don't need styling
+ Mar 05 03:45:29 <div0> they do look clearly like warps anyway :P
+ Mar 05 03:45:31 <div0> which is good
+ Mar 05 03:45:53 <div0> they wouldn't be irritating :P
+ Mar 05 03:46:04 <div0> however - if you style the ones on stormkeep, these could be too
+ Mar 05 03:46:30 <FruitieX> true
+ Mar 05 03:49:05 <FruitieX> could make some "standard" for how warpzones look
+ Mar 05 03:49:21 <FruitieX> would of course need to speak with morphed, tZork etc artists
+ Mar 05 03:50:56 <FruitieX> lol someone has modified wikipedia already: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nexuiz#Commercialization_and_Death
+ Mar 05 03:50:59 <FruitieX> "and death"
+ Mar 05 03:51:00 <FruitieX> bah :P
+ Mar 05 03:51:25 <FruitieX> mikee? :P
+ Mar 05 03:51:43 * morphed (~morphed@095160110118.warszawa.vectranet.pl) has joined #notnexuiz
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+ Mar 05 04:14:52 <FruitieX> div0: after doing a make, what were the remaining steps to do for a functioning netradiant installation?
+ Mar 05 04:15:29 <FruitieX> i'm currently getting a message "editor binary doesnt match what the latest setup has configured in this directory. Make sure you run the right/latest editor binary you installed"
+ Mar 05 04:16:12 <FruitieX> i'm sure that i ran the download-gamepacks.sh script though
+ Mar 05 04:19:08 <div0> no idea
+ Mar 05 04:19:14 <div0> that message should never come
+ Mar 05 04:19:16 <FruitieX> hmm
+ Mar 05 04:19:22 <div0> can you check for files RADIANT_* in install/?
+ Mar 05 04:19:25 <div0> can you retry make install?
+ Mar 05 04:20:13 <FruitieX> eh, now it works yes
+ Mar 05 04:20:23 <FruitieX> so i'm supposed to get the gamepacks BEFORE make
+ Mar 05 04:20:26 <FruitieX> it seems like...
+ Mar 05 04:40:28 <FruitieX> div0: for the new version of Nexuiz I'd like to see light data on the maps calculated by a raytracer
+ Mar 05 04:40:48 <FruitieX> because in my opinion it manages to look quite a lot better on some maps
+ Mar 05 04:40:58 <FruitieX> at least if done right... :P
+ Mar 05 04:41:34 <div0> will you NEVER want to release it?
+ Mar 05 04:44:04 <div0> or do you happen to have a working raytracer for that?
+ Mar 05 04:44:22 <FruitieX> the DP one WORKS.... but can't save :P
+ Mar 05 04:44:27 <div0> it does not :P
+ Mar 05 04:44:40 <div0> I couldn't get it to light up the floor or ceiling on euclidean fail
+ Mar 05 04:44:50 <div0> if it had worked, it would have motivated me to add loading and saving for it
+ Mar 05 04:44:56 <FruitieX> no? hmm
+ Mar 05 04:45:09 <FruitieX> maybe it has been broken since i tested it
+ Mar 05 04:45:12 <FruitieX> i know it did work for me
+ Mar 05 04:45:17 <div0> can you try on euclidean fail?
+ Mar 05 04:45:20 <FruitieX> sure
+ Mar 05 04:45:20 <div0> maybe the problem is map specific
+ Mar 05 04:45:23 <div0> it lit up the walls
+ Mar 05 04:45:25 <FruitieX> are there rtlights on there already?
+ Mar 05 04:45:26 <div0> but not the floor and ceiling
+ Mar 05 04:45:31 <div0> I made some in the rtlight editor
+ Mar 05 04:45:34 <FruitieX> ok
+ Mar 05 04:45:37 <div0> these properly lit up the floors/ceilings
+ Mar 05 04:45:38 <FruitieX> brb first though
+ Mar 05 04:45:40 <div0> I meanä
+ Mar 05 04:45:43 <div0> the walls :P
+ Mar 05 04:59:10 <div0> one question is left - do we HAVE to rename+
+ Mar 05 04:59:16 <div0> given how hard it seems to be to come out wiht a godo name
+ Mar 05 04:59:26 <div0> [-z-]: if you keep doing SEO as you did for AT, we might not HAVE to rename
+ Mar 05 05:00:03 <div0> it is just that SEO and spreading the word would become WAY more important than now
+ Mar 05 05:01:01 <FruitieX> of course, i got a segfault when turning on rt world lights... :P
+ Mar 05 05:01:31 <div0> BTW, DP's isn't a raytracer :P
+ Mar 05 05:01:36 <div0> it works very similar to q3map2's
+ Mar 05 05:01:40 <div0> just less buggy :P
+ Mar 05 05:01:45 <div0> that is, IF it works
+ Mar 05 05:01:49 <FruitieX> heh
+ Mar 05 05:02:03 <div0> speaking of segfault - also often got segfautls with the lights compile stuff :P
+ Mar 05 05:02:09 <FruitieX> how come i was able to produce some much sweeter looking lightning for aggressor - then? :P
+ Mar 05 05:02:17 <div0> oh? can I see?
+ Mar 05 05:02:19 <FruitieX> even if it doesn't have AO and radiosity
+ Mar 05 05:02:23 <FruitieX> that was a long time ago div0
+ Mar 05 05:02:24 <div0> not tried it on already finished maps
+ Mar 05 05:02:26 <div0> oh
+ Mar 05 05:02:27 <FruitieX> i have screens though, hold on
+ Mar 05 05:02:29 <div0> maybe he borked it :P
+ Mar 05 05:02:40 <FruitieX> indeed thats what i'm thinking too
+ Mar 05 05:02:58 <div0> but well
+ Mar 05 05:03:01 <div0> once it renders right
+ Mar 05 05:03:05 <div0> I will code loading and saving
+ Mar 05 05:03:16 <div0> will likely use more GPU memory than q3map2 though
+ Mar 05 05:03:30 <div0> (as it doesn't pack the lightmaps together so well)
+ Mar 05 05:03:35 <FruitieX> http://pics.nexuizninjaz.com/images/oq8t3xpshhakub5d0a3.jpg
+ Mar 05 05:03:48 <FruitieX> wtf is that very bright trim light there though? :P
+ Mar 05 05:03:49 <FruitieX> http://pics.nexuizninjaz.com/images/rm2gjazwaoo85rvxgd59.jpg
+ Mar 05 05:04:34 <FruitieX> iirc LH said the lightmaps generated by this are of way smaller resolution than those by q3map2
+ Mar 05 05:05:05 <FruitieX> guess that comes with a cost too - no sharp shadows
+ Mar 05 05:05:24 <div0> but well
+ Mar 05 05:05:29 <div0> I don't think this should be a requirement
+ Mar 05 05:05:36 <div0> rtlights files, however, should be again
+ Mar 05 05:05:44 <div0> even on e&b :P
+ Mar 05 05:05:53 <div0> (but there it really shouldn't be hard)
+ Mar 05 05:06:25 <FruitieX> well, i just think it looks more realistic than what q3map2 generates :)
+ Mar 05 05:06:34 <div0> true :P
+ Mar 05 05:06:48 <FruitieX> q3map2's lightning seems oddly boring in some way
+ Mar 05 05:07:01 <FruitieX> wish we could do this via e.g. blender's internal renderer or so :P
+ Mar 05 05:08:39 * Spaceman (~Spaceman@87.127.156.98) has joined #notnexuiz
+ Mar 05 05:09:09 <FruitieX> also div0, euclidean fail seems to work here :P
+ Mar 05 05:09:15 <div0> oh, cool
+ Mar 05 05:09:19 <div0> maybe thjere has been a fix :P
+ Mar 05 05:09:26 <div0> screenshot?
+ Mar 05 05:09:33 <div0> (of EF with one light :P)
+ Mar 05 05:09:42 <div0> and you did remember to turn off rtlights again after compiling the lights?
+ Mar 05 05:10:00 <FruitieX> i did
+ Mar 05 05:10:04 <FruitieX> i never turned them on in fact :P
+ Mar 05 05:10:10 <FruitieX> as that seems to be almost 100% crash for me
+ Mar 05 05:10:15 <FruitieX> after spawning a light, that is
+ Mar 05 05:10:44 <FruitieX> div0: roof seems oddly dark: http://pics.nexuizninjaz.com/images/rq14ns4laha3scdq2gbz.jpg
+ Mar 05 05:11:05 <div0> oh, you can use rtlight editor without? :P
+ Mar 05 05:11:14 <FruitieX> yes, apparently :P
+ Mar 05 05:11:15 <div0> funny, so floor gets hit, ceiling not
+ Mar 05 05:11:41 <FruitieX> ceiling gets hit a bit
+ Mar 05 05:12:04 <FruitieX> maybe light being so close causes some bugs...
+ Mar 05 05:12:27 <div0> I tried lights in the air too
+ Mar 05 05:12:30 <div0> or make one on a wall
+ Mar 05 05:15:15 <FruitieX> near wall (to the right): http://pics.nexuizninjaz.com/images/oi7gdi1t7esvv0hjlun.jpg
+ Mar 05 05:15:35 <div0> great, so it actually works for you somewhat
+ Mar 05 05:15:35 <FruitieX> in the air: http://pics.nexuizninjaz.com/images/hqarpb6pmn29nvovsc4w.jpg
+ Mar 05 05:15:41 <FruitieX> 100 units from the roof
+ Mar 05 05:15:45 <FruitieX> yep last one looks best
+ Mar 05 05:16:04 <FruitieX> all of them have radius 1000 btw, which is quite much
+ Mar 05 05:16:09 <FruitieX> but as i'm only using one light... :)
+ Mar 05 05:16:34 <FruitieX> the first two pics both have their light pushed only 4 units from the surface (default for r_editlights)
+ Mar 05 05:16:58 <div0> hm... great
+ Mar 05 05:17:06 <div0> when I get this working too, I will make loading/saving :P
+ Mar 05 05:18:04 <FruitieX> aah get it working :P
+ Mar 05 05:18:21 <FruitieX> also need (in order of importance): skybox sun support
+ Mar 05 05:18:38 <FruitieX> surfacelight shader parameter support
+ Mar 05 05:18:50 <div0> surfacelight, not sure if doable
+ Mar 05 05:18:54 <FruitieX> hmm
+ Mar 05 05:18:54 <div0> as it is based on the rtlights
+ Mar 05 05:19:00 <div0> sun. NEEDED, whatever the cost
+ Mar 05 05:19:04 <FruitieX> right well
+ Mar 05 05:19:14 <FruitieX> hacky way of doing surfacelight should work
+ Mar 05 05:19:21 <FruitieX> just spawn some lights above the surface... :P
+ Mar 05 05:20:21 <FruitieX> of course i had to test, even if i knew the outcome: http://pics.nexuizninjaz.com/images/op1ni605okf37c51z62k.jpg
+ Mar 05 05:20:28 <FruitieX> through warpzone: epic fail :)
+ Mar 05 05:21:00 <div0> sure :P
+ Mar 05 05:21:03 <div0> not really avoidable
+ Mar 05 05:21:12 <div0> lights in the "connection space" might be supportable
+ Mar 05 05:21:17 <div0> as they could be transformed to the other side
+ Mar 05 05:21:28 <div0> but other lights, no
+ Mar 05 05:21:55 <div0> hehe, maybe could be done using a warpzone preprocessor, which reads a rtlights file, and adds warpzoned versions of all lights :P
+ Mar 05 05:22:21 <FruitieX> hehe
+ Mar 05 05:23:23 <FruitieX> problem then of course would be, what if there's a room behind the warpzone, and a light near the other warpzone
+ Mar 05 05:23:44 <FruitieX> if that makes any sense...
+ Mar 05 05:23:51 <FruitieX> stormkeep would be a good example here :P
+ Mar 05 05:26:39 <div0> oh :P
+ Mar 05 05:26:51 <div0> it should only project the light to the other side, if it fits into the trigger brush of the zone
+ Mar 05 05:27:08 <div0> that wouldn't cause bugs, but would mean some lights will be missing
+ Mar 05 05:31:02 <FruitieX> ah of course :P
+ Mar 05 05:34:14 <FruitieX> another BTW: this looks terrible on patches :P
+ Mar 05 05:34:46 <SoulKeeper_p> +1 on Pheonix, tho thats already taken.
+ Mar 05 05:35:16 <SoulKeeper_p> hm
+ Mar 05 05:35:23 <div0> FruitieX: patches may be fixable
+ Mar 05 05:41:55 * mand1nga has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
+ Mar 05 05:45:38 <SoulKeeper_p> Here some input according name (random order):(seo tested, and domain name proof.)
+ Mar 05 05:45:57 <SoulKeeper_p> * Nexologic
+ Mar 05 05:46:15 <SoulKeeper_p> * Phanomite (phenomite)
+ Mar 05 05:46:22 <SoulKeeper_p> * JustNex
+ Mar 05 06:12:38 * Morphed (~Morphed@aaqd187.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #notnexuiz
+ Mar 05 06:20:55 <div0> TehRealNexuiz
+ Mar 05 06:21:03 <div0> Nexuiz - the ORIGINAL
+ Mar 05 06:32:36 <Morphed> ?
+ Mar 05 06:33:12 <Morphed> so its not pheonix anymore ?
+ Mar 05 06:34:20 <Dokujisan> the name "phoenix" (or the misspelled Pheonix) name is simply overused.
+ Mar 05 06:34:54 <Dokujisan> a unique name would be best
+ Mar 05 06:35:06 <Dokujisan> preferrably something that doesn't already have a meaning
+ Mar 05 06:35:13 <Dokujisan> just like Nexuiz was
+ Mar 05 06:36:56 <Morphed> still its best so far :)
+ Mar 05 06:38:54 <SoulKeeper_p> its pitta on pheonix ye.
+ Mar 05 06:39:02 <Dokujisan> I like nexotic, nexilus, xenotic, nexion (although that one is pretty much taken)
+ Mar 05 06:39:07 <SoulKeeper_p> Morphed, you missed:
+ Mar 05 06:39:08 <SoulKeeper_p> * mand1nga has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
+ Mar 05 06:39:08 <SoulKeeper_p> <SoulKeeper_p> Here some input according name (random order):(seo tested, and domain name proof.)
+ Mar 05 06:39:08 <SoulKeeper_p> <SoulKeeper_p> * Nexologic
+ Mar 05 06:39:08 <SoulKeeper_p> <SoulKeeper_p> * Phanomite (phenomite)
+ Mar 05 06:39:08 <SoulKeeper_p> <SoulKeeper_p> * JustNex
+ Mar 05 06:39:10 <SoulKeeper_p> * Morphed (~Morphed@aaqd187.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #notnexuiz
+ Mar 05 06:39:52 <SoulKeeper_p> + Nexotic
+ Mar 05 06:39:58 <SoulKeeper_p> 1*
+ Mar 05 06:40:15 <Dokujisan> for the 'x' names, xodius is decent too
+ Mar 05 06:40:27 <Dokujisan> the thing is, we can't keep the "n" symbol
+ Mar 05 06:40:35 <Dokujisan> so we're going to have to come up with another symbol
+ Mar 05 06:40:58 <Dokujisan> that's one downside to using the "nex" prefix
+ Mar 05 06:41:06 <Dokujisan> or a name that begins with "n"
+ Mar 05 06:41:23 <Morphed> maybe kanji symbol for reborn or phoenix :)
+ Mar 05 06:41:32 <SoulKeeper_p> yea, kinna..or the design should differ then the orig n"
+ Mar 05 06:42:09 <Dokujisan> Morphed: now that's a good idea
+ Mar 05 06:42:21 <Dokujisan> the previous symbol was kanji for power or something
+ Mar 05 06:42:32 <Morphed> nexologic ?
+ Mar 05 06:42:33 <Morphed> Buy it, use it, break it, fix it,
+ Mar 05 06:42:33 <Morphed> Trash it, change it, mail - upgrade it,
+ Mar 05 06:44:50 <Morphed> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtdWHFwmd2o
+ Mar 05 06:46:27 <div0> could use the katakana for "n" ;)
+ Mar 05 06:46:30 <SoulKeeper_p> strength symbol iirc.
+ Mar 05 06:46:33 <SoulKeeper_p> Morphed, hehe
+ Mar 05 06:46:35 <div0> no, hiragana better
+ Mar 05 06:46:53 <div0> http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/N-hiragana.gif&imgrefurl=http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:N-hiragana.gif&usg=__GBzjYnWOW-oUlc0qBkv0NYa4tNc=&h=100&w=100&sz=3&hl=de&start=1&tbnid=m-p4h4dshSvgOM:&tbnh=82&tbnw=82&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dn%2Bhiragana%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dde%26client%3Dopera%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1
+ Mar 05 06:47:08 <Morphed> not that cool
+ Mar 05 06:49:15 * Taoki (kvirc@93.113.162.42) has joined #notnexuiz
+ Mar 05 06:53:30 <Dokujisan> ok I got the support of the aussienexers
+ Mar 05 06:53:48 <Dokujisan> so whatever we need them to do for this new-nexuiz fork, they are willing to do
+ Mar 05 06:53:50 <FruitieX> :o
+ Mar 05 06:54:05 <div0> thing is still... shouldn't we keep our name somehow nexuiz-related so it can be done as long as possible?
+ Mar 05 06:54:13 <div0> so basically: maybe a name WITH nexuiz somewhere in it is best
+ Mar 05 06:55:02 <div0> great, so we have the support of Bogan? ;)
+ Mar 05 06:55:09 <Dokujisan> haha
+ Mar 05 06:55:21 <Dokujisan> well he's the most important one..we MUST get him
+ Mar 05 06:55:25 <Morphed> we will have support of willis also
+ Mar 05 06:55:48 <div0> but basically... we should make one thing clear
+ Mar 05 06:55:51 <div0> this should NOT be a fork
+ Mar 05 06:56:00 <div0> but, we should take over the Alientrap project as a free group
+ Mar 05 06:56:15 <div0> (will happen anyway, if we do what we are going to)
+ Mar 05 06:56:40 <div0> so, we do not HAVE to use an entirely new name
+ Mar 05 06:56:43 <Dokujisan> <div0> this should NOT be a fork
+ Mar 05 06:56:44 <Dokujisan> ?
+ Mar 05 06:56:48 <div0> well
+ Mar 05 06:56:50 <div0> assume we fork
+ Mar 05 06:57:02 <div0> do you really think anyone at alientrap will be left and willing to do their own "nexuiz" development?
+ Mar 05 06:57:07 <div0> AT will only care for the console one anyway
+ Mar 05 06:57:22 <Dokujisan> well, that's true, but it's at least verm's decision to do that
+ Mar 05 06:57:29 <div0> sure
+ Mar 05 06:57:33 <Dokujisan> possibly LH would take over
+ Mar 05 06:57:38 <div0> doubt it
+ Mar 05 06:58:14 <div0> he sounded not against the idea of taking Nexuiz out of the hands of Alientrap/Vermeulen, and continuing as an actual FLOSS project, when loosely hinting to that this might happen
+ Mar 05 06:58:30 <Dokujisan> hmm
+ Mar 05 06:58:40 <div0> and actually
+ Mar 05 06:58:47 <div0> if we do a fork, exactly that will effectively happen
+ Mar 05 06:58:52 <div0> LH won't continue with it
+ Mar 05 06:59:27 <div0> so, there will NOT be two competing lines of development
+ Mar 05 06:59:45 <div0> simply because NONE of the currently active Nexuiz developers (apart from LH) are in any way affiliated with Alientrap
+ Mar 05 07:00:05 <div0> so it shouldn't be hard to win them over
+ Mar 05 07:00:29 <div0> and LH on the other hand won't be unhappy to know that he can now work more on Darkwar
+ Mar 05 07:01:07 <div0> basically: we do NOT have to be much different from current Nexuiz
+ Mar 05 07:01:20 <Dokujisan> Now that we have more people in here, I would like to discuss some ideas for structure. You mentioned the idea of 3 (or 5?) key leaders to make final decisions and a committee underneath and a process for deciding things.
+ Mar 05 07:01:27 <div0> we could, maybe, even use the name (but using JUSt the name Nexuiz would probably be bad, with a variation/suffix would work)
+ Mar 05 07:01:39 <div0> if we do take another name, we should CLEARLY state that the project was once known as Nexuiz
+ Mar 05 07:01:44 <SoulKeeper_p> PureNexuiz
+ Mar 05 07:01:47 <SoulKeeper_p> JustNexuiz
+ Mar 05 07:01:57 <div0> does that work for search engines?
+ Mar 05 07:02:01 <div0> [-z-]: ?
+ Mar 05 07:02:08 <Dokujisan> what's been said a lot so far is that "Nexuiz" was never a good name to begin with
+ Mar 05 07:02:12 <div0> or would we have to spell it "Pure nexuiz"
+ Mar 05 07:02:18 <div0> that is true
+ Mar 05 07:02:28 <div0> yet still, a new name means starting from ground zero, popularity wise
+ Mar 05 07:02:34 <SoulKeeper_p> well div0 its hard to het it up since nexuiz is already there on google rank higher up ;)
+ Mar 05 07:02:36 <Dokujisan> so I don't mind carrying on the use of "nex" in the name
+ Mar 05 07:02:38 <div0> it would be wise to try to figure out how we can at least gain a BIT from illfonic
+ Mar 05 07:03:04 <Dokujisan> I think the buzz from this story, since it is stemming from a failed GPL project, will help us generate a lot of attention
+ Mar 05 07:03:07 <Dokujisan> if we launch this properly
+ Mar 05 07:03:32 <Dokujisan> anytime there is a big story associated with a GPL project, it ends up on digg, reddit, slashdot
+ Mar 05 07:03:52 <div0> yes, but that is short term
+ Mar 05 07:04:06 <div0> but sure
+ Mar 05 07:06:52 <div0> as for organization, I suggest:
+ Mar 05 07:06:57 <Dokujisan> aussienexers asked why this is secret. The main reason I gave was.... " we have a lot of work to do. getting pelted with constant questions would not help that"
+ Mar 05 07:07:01 <div0> - three "leaders" who should come from different backgrounds
+ Mar 05 07:07:20 <div0> - otherwise, freedom should reign among the community
+ Mar 05 07:07:39 <div0> - "big" decisions (like whole new gameplay balance) should be approved by ALL leaders, who stand personally for the community
+ Mar 05 07:07:52 <div0> - small stuff can be decided by the community directly (e.g. by just performing a change and committing)
+ Mar 05 07:08:11 <div0> - nobody will be able AT ALL to sell/relicense the project :P
+ Mar 05 07:08:37 <SoulKeeper_p> PureNexuiz and JustNexuiz both domain wise are avail..
+ Mar 05 07:08:50 <Dokujisan> again, "nexuiz" is deemed a not very good name
+ Mar 05 07:09:03 <Dokujisan> we should let it go
+ Mar 05 07:09:04 <SoulKeeper_p> div0, good simple starting rules
+ Mar 05 07:09:24 <Dokujisan> div0: that sounds good so far
+ Mar 05 07:09:35 <SoulKeeper_p> Dokujisan, one says let it go other wants it, best thing is make up ones mind then act. ;)
+ Mar 05 07:09:59 <div0> different backgrounds: that should ensure no interest group of nexuiz loses too much weight
+ Mar 05 07:10:41 <div0> I'd mention: competitive background (this leader job will most likely go to Dokujisan, or maybe NN), "play for fun" background (e.g. PB)
+ Mar 05 07:10:48 <div0> but there'd be more
+ Mar 05 07:11:00 <Dokujisan> my main interest is that I want to be a community organizer and help with recruiting new talent to the project, marketing efforts, manage volunteers from within the community
+ Mar 05 07:11:06 <div0> sure
+ Mar 05 07:11:10 <div0> that wouldn't be inhibited :P
+ Mar 05 07:11:31 <div0> but regarding game relevant decisions, you probably will represent the competitive side, which is good, as that NEEDS to be represented
+ Mar 05 07:11:55 <div0> and with interest groups, I mean "from the players"
+ Mar 05 07:12:10 <div0> so... let me ask this way
+ Mar 05 07:12:13 <div0> why do you play Nexuiz?
+ Mar 05 07:12:25 <Dokujisan> it's my replacement for martial arts heh
+ Mar 05 07:12:51 <Dokujisan> I used to train in martial arts a lot. I don't as much and nexuiz sorta took that spot.
+ Mar 05 07:12:57 <div0> I mostly play for fun, and therefore like development of new stuff and experimenting... others play competitively, which of course prefers sticking to the roots
+ Mar 05 07:13:14 <div0> (and requires stability in the "core game")
+ Mar 05 07:13:26 <SoulKeeper_p> I can understand why div0 or tZork|gone does not want to necessarily leave the name "nexuiz" ...they are indd some major pro cons to that.
+ Mar 05 07:13:36 <Dokujisan> and I like the organization-side of business and I get to do some of that within nexuiz
+ Mar 05 07:13:43 <div0> but there sure is more interest groups
+ Mar 05 07:13:53 <div0> Dokujisan: well, it should NOT be organized like a business :P
+ Mar 05 07:13:57 <div0> we have seen what happens then ;)
+ Mar 05 07:14:05 <Dokujisan> certainly not like a business, no
+ Mar 05 07:14:18 <Dokujisan> but the 'organization" aspect of running a business is interesting to me
+ Mar 05 07:14:21 <div0> but sure, if you are good at it AND flexible in thought (not time)...
+ Mar 05 07:14:24 <div0> then that is great
+ Mar 05 07:14:31 <div0> and you indeed seem that way
+ Mar 05 07:15:15 <div0> also, I always had an interest in the theory of politics... and how it usually fails :P
+ Mar 05 07:15:30 <div0> which is why I now will try to ensure a structure with a sort of "division of power", but without the bureaucracy
+ Mar 05 07:15:42 <div0> I mean, we sure shouldn't divide into legislative, executive, judicative :P
+ Mar 05 07:16:01 <Dokujisan> I see
+ Mar 05 07:16:08 <div0> but, we should indeed learn some lessons from history of politics :P
+ Mar 05 07:16:21 <div0> like: "much power in one person = FAIL"
+ Mar 05 07:16:47 <Dokujisan> I agree
+ Mar 05 07:17:03 <Dokujisan> a good project needs leadership, but that leadership shouldn't be one single person
+ Mar 05 07:17:04 <div0> and as we have seen now, it's even MORE fail, if nobody knows/realizes that someone has the much power :P
+ Mar 05 07:17:14 <Dokujisan> haha yeah
+ Mar 05 07:17:21 <div0> also, as a free project, leadership should not be exerted by force :P
+ Mar 05 07:17:40 <div0> if someone wants a feature, and the leaders are against it, one should think about a way to get it in in a varied but better fashion
+ Mar 05 07:18:15 <div0> code wise, I'd go so far - if the code is harmless (e.g. if it can be turned off), and mostly bug free, it can go in - even if I don't like what it brings
+ Mar 05 07:18:41 <div0> art wise it's a bit more difficult, as there can be many opinions what is good and what is not
+ Mar 05 07:19:28 <div0> there, I'd only like to avoid bad taste (like, pr0n, or TOO strong displays of violence - after all, the game is meant to be PLAYed, and is not a virtual torture chamber)
+ Mar 05 07:19:55 <div0> of course, the competitive players ALSO do not want overly strong violence, as it blocks the view :P
+ Mar 05 07:20:04 <Dokujisan> yeah... like leaving out "You pussy!!" voice recordings :-)
+ Mar 05 07:20:18 <Dokujisan> or whaever that thing said
+ Mar 05 07:20:20 <div0> as a non-native speaker, I mainly think of a cat when hearing that...
+ Mar 05 07:20:23 <div0> but yes, maybe that should go
+ Mar 05 07:20:44 <div0> there's enough "verbal violence" in chat, we don't need it in sounds too:P
+ Mar 05 07:21:47 <div0> basically... I think regarding that, the game should be in a way so that the Pope wouldn't object to playing it, other than him probably not being interested in video games :P
+ Mar 05 07:22:14 <div0> and there isn't much needed to achieve that... guns are generally accepted as GOOD ;) and the rest is fine, apart from soem voice recordings
+ Mar 05 07:22:25 <Dokujisan> I have to say that I've agreed with 99% of what you've said over the past 48 hours during these chats. The only thing I disagreed with is the privacy concerns with central user system, but we discussed and resolved that now. So I'm very excited and hopefully for where things are going.
+ Mar 05 07:22:41 <Dokujisan> hopeful*
+ Mar 05 07:23:18 <div0> regarding violence for example: I like that our guns are either unrealistic (electro, hlac), or those which do make sense in real life, aren't overly graphic (like shotgun)
+ Mar 05 07:23:53 <div0> shooting someone with a Nex IMHO does not count as graphic violence, as nobody would ever take a scifi weapon for real :P
+ Mar 05 07:24:20 <Taoki> Yeah, that is true as well.
+ Mar 05 07:24:20 <Dokujisan> I really like the futuristic theme that Nexuiz has grown into. I understand it started out more with an industrial/gritty theme like Quake, but changed over time to more futuristic
+ Mar 05 07:24:22 <Taoki> Hi all
+ Mar 05 07:24:43 <div0> this is also BTW why I don't like mikeeusa's "cutting" idea :P
+ Mar 05 07:24:50 <div0> I do not WANT lasers to cut player models into parts
+ Mar 05 07:25:00 <Taoki> Well, I was at some point pondering pain skins. Like a blood layer being stuck to players based on their health
+ Mar 05 07:25:05 <div0> but using it for func_breakable to break a window into parts, sure, yeah
+ Mar 05 07:25:20 <div0> Taoki: I wouldn't care for it violence wise, but it'd eat GPU memory like hell
+ Mar 05 07:25:31 <Taoki> For realism... I don't really like gore and stuff
+ Mar 05 07:25:38 <Taoki> ah, i see
+ Mar 05 07:26:12 <div0> breaking THINGS is not exactly graphic violence after all :P
+ Mar 05 07:26:17 <Dokujisan> yeah
+ Mar 05 07:26:27 <div0> huge explosions, hell yeah
+ Mar 05 07:26:30 <Taoki> Well the old Kingpin - Life of Crime (gang game made over the Quake 1 2 or 3 engine, 10 years old at least) had pain skins, but they were 2 different versions of each player skin
+ Mar 05 07:26:54 <div0> thus I also like the idea that in a fps like Nexuiz, you don't really die
+ Mar 05 07:26:57 <div0> you just respawn :P
+ Mar 05 07:27:13 <div0> you respawn and need to collect items again, but you can continue playing
+ Mar 05 07:27:29 <Taoki> What i'd like to see though is after-damage effects like in UT2004. eg. You shoot someone with the machinegun, they spray a blood trail for a second. Electro, they have lightning coming out of them for a second, etc.
+ Mar 05 07:27:39 <div0> that sure makes you way less immersed to the game - but I like it, I like playing "detached" from the game
+ Mar 05 07:28:11 <div0> Taoki: csqc networked players and we can have it :P
+ Mar 05 07:28:16 <div0> of course with cl_gentle versions of it ;)
+ Mar 05 07:28:30 <Taoki> yeah. It can be enabled only if cl_gentle is
+ Mar 05 07:28:38 <Taoki> I tried implementing it a long time ago
+ Mar 05 07:28:42 <div0> that can be enabled in non-gentle too...
+ Mar 05 07:28:45 <div0> I do not object to it
+ Mar 05 07:28:52 <div0> as it doesn't make the game more violent
+ Mar 05 07:28:57 <Taoki> But couldn't figure hot to put a constant particle generating entity to a player
+ Mar 05 07:29:06 <div0> whether the blood is sprayed on hit, or slowly over time, changes not much
+ Mar 05 07:29:07 <Taoki> Which then dies off after a time
+ Mar 05 07:29:13 <div0> but slowly over time looks better and gives better fps
+ Mar 05 07:29:17 <div0> yes
+ Mar 05 07:29:23 <div0> this is what you need CSQC networked players for
+ Mar 05 07:30:06 * tZork|gone is now known as tZork
+ Mar 05 07:30:08 <div0> do not do it on server qc, although you maybe could
+ Mar 05 07:30:12 <div0> as ti'd be a huge bandwidth hog
+ Mar 05 07:30:26 <div0> in server qc, sure, you could make a particle emitting ent and make it MOVETYPE_FOLLOW the player
+ Mar 05 07:30:31 <div0> but don't, that eats BW like hell
+ Mar 05 07:31:08 <div0> if you want it for your own mod, sure, can code it for you :P
+ Mar 05 07:31:15 <div0> (the server side variant)
+ Mar 05 07:31:22 <tZork> what a day.. hi fokes.
+ Mar 05 07:31:27 <div0> hi
+ Mar 05 07:32:18 <FruitieX> hi
+ Mar 05 07:32:27 <tZork> gebuz the backlog is abt as as logn as Doku's log hehe. will be hard to keep read up on it all.
+ Mar 05 07:32:33 <Dokujisan> lol
+ Mar 05 07:32:45 <Dokujisan> we just covered ideas on organization
+ Mar 05 07:32:52 <Dokujisan> so scan the recent chat for that
+ Mar 05 07:33:27 <Dokujisan> I'll end up replacing that notnexuiz.log with page giving bullet points
+ Mar 05 07:33:36 <Dokujisan> after some decisions are nailed down
+ Mar 05 07:33:55 <Dokujisan> I need to skim through our discussions about map choices and put those into my notes
+ Mar 05 07:35:23 * Taoki has quit (Ping timeout: 364 seconds)
+ Mar 05 07:35:31 <tZork> a totaly flat organization (as in all votes are equal on all subjects) would be interesting. very likely "to interesting" tough ;)
+ Mar 05 07:36:18 <div0> totally flat would probably not work :P
+ Mar 05 07:36:21 <div0> then you can do nothing
+ Mar 05 07:36:42 <div0> but there should be "enough" leaders, and they should represent various aspects of the game
+ Mar 05 07:36:52 <div0> especially the aspects that tend to cause controversy
+ Mar 05 07:37:07 <div0> the goal is to choose leaders so that any possible controversy is also among the leaders :P
+ Mar 05 07:37:27 <Dokujisan> one thing that is difficult with a committee vote is if not everyone is around to vote
+ Mar 05 07:37:33 <Dokujisan> like on vacation or something
+ Mar 05 07:37:34 <div0> yes
+ Mar 05 07:37:51 <div0> also, not sure if voting by itself actually works
+ Mar 05 07:38:09 <div0> and, big decisions that NEED all leaders to agree (and most of the community) don't happen that often
+ Mar 05 07:38:21 <div0> big gameplay changes can e.g. first be done in a branch, and later applied
+ Mar 05 07:38:40 <div0> most stuff that is being developed is stuff that does not interfere with anyone else
+ Mar 05 07:38:46 <Dokujisan> div0: tZork was asking about (or suggesting, rather) some code cleanup for nexuiz
+ Mar 05 07:38:50 <Dokujisan> tZork: can you go more into that?
+ Mar 05 07:38:57 <tZork> it does work, when the involved parties are somewhat limited in number, and fairly like minded. in that piticular case (in my own experiance) that model is acctualy superior. but its a rather delicate entity.
+ Mar 05 07:39:17 <div0> tZork: in case of Nexuiz community, no
+ Mar 05 07:39:20 <div0> see the CTF scoring case :P
+ Mar 05 07:39:24 <Dokujisan> hehe
+ Mar 05 07:39:40 <div0> everyone convinced that the old was is bad - but also everyone proposing and insisting on his own way to solve it
+ Mar 05 07:39:52 <div0> so whatever decision is taken (even "no change at all"), you have 80% against you
+ Mar 05 07:40:08 <Dokujisan> for CTF scoring, we finally did some proper testing, but unfortunately that testing was done "live" as the default. Everyone on my servers thinks the scoring is strange.
+ Mar 05 07:40:19 <tZork> how to fuck up a good idea - just add ppl ;)
+ Mar 05 07:40:27 <Dokujisan> ;-)
+ Mar 05 07:41:01 <Dokujisan> I understand the ideas behind the scoring though. Luckily, scoring isn't a top priority issue. People still love the game even with messed up scoring.
+ Mar 05 07:41:03 <tZork> sure Dokujisan, well my main gippy with nexuiz codebase it its planless. and suffers there of.
+ Mar 05 07:41:27 <div0> tZork: most stuff is quite clean
+ Mar 05 07:41:32 <div0> and I don't think we should overthrow it all
+ Mar 05 07:41:37 <div0> I am rather for slowly reorganizing it
+ Mar 05 07:41:51 <div0> the parts that probably SHOULD be overthrown and replaced: teamplay.qc :P
+ Mar 05 07:41:55 <tZork> quality wize, yes, tnx to you im most cases div0
+ Mar 05 07:42:15 <tZork> but its following much the random structure it happend to evole into
+ Mar 05 07:42:17 <div0> what I fear of a "cleanup" is that 80% of the features will be gone
+ Mar 05 07:42:43 <div0> and THAT I will never approve of
+ Mar 05 07:42:52 <tZork> thus has major unnessesary overhead, and its a bitch to get into for anyone from teh outside.
+ Mar 05 07:43:04 <div0> well, how are you going to fix that?
+ Mar 05 07:43:14 <div0> I am certainly rejecting the idea if it emans that all interesting features are gone
+ Mar 05 07:43:23 <tZork> start clean, copy stuff over. but have a plan for it.
+ Mar 05 07:43:34 <div0> I won't have much time for that, neither much motivation
+ Mar 05 07:43:41 <div0> also, it WILL mean that most features are gone
+ Mar 05 07:44:04 <div0> probably all that I did, as I won't have the motivation to implement it all a second time
+ Mar 05 07:44:12 <tZork> successfull evolution means dropping off dead weight.
+ Mar 05 07:44:18 <div0> depends
+ Mar 05 07:44:28 <div0> I bet you consider Keyhunt dead weight
+ Mar 05 07:44:38 <div0> so YOU would not reimplement it
+ Mar 05 07:45:15 <div0> also, how are you even going to reorganize the bot code? Nobody on earth understands it :P
+ Mar 05 07:45:19 <tZork> not sure, this is a specific case tough, what i want to talk abt it the general idea
+ Mar 05 07:45:32 <div0> general idea may be fine, but it probably won't eb Nexuiz any more then
+ Mar 05 07:45:34 <tZork> if noone cares enougth to port feature X over, its rather likely that noone cares abt afore
+ Mar 05 07:45:35 <div0> but a totally different game
+ Mar 05 07:45:38 <Dokujisan> maybe we can do a code review by a number of people (developers) and start taking notes of areas of the code that they feel needs cleanup.
+ Mar 05 07:45:50 <div0> tZork: it is not about caring
+ Mar 05 07:45:54 <div0> but also about having the time for it
+ Mar 05 07:45:56 <Dokujisan> and then we can discuss it better after we know what exactly we're talking about (what areas of code)
+ Mar 05 07:46:23 <div0> tZork: if it's some hidden feature nobody ever uses, sure, then that can be "reorganized away"
+ Mar 05 07:46:32 <div0> but what would that be, apart maybe from runematch?
+ Mar 05 07:46:40 <Dokujisan> omg I forgot about runematch
+ Mar 05 07:46:42 <div0> or certain failed balance_teams modes that all suck
+ Mar 05 07:47:29 * Disconnected (Connection reset by peer).
+ **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Mar 05 07:47:29 2010